Bodyguard + aid another + reach weapons

[Jose Suarez 310]

I know this question it's been asked many times but still to this day I don't see any clear rules or FAQ that clarifies bodyguard and reach weapons. There are people who uses reach weapon and bodyguard while there are others who believe that it's illegal because it clearly say in the bodyguard feat "you have to be adjacent to the attacked ally"" and adjacent means 5 FEET from your square. I know that the creator of bodyguard already clarified that you don't have to threaten the attacked which pretty much gives the feat much more usefullnes but still it clearly says "you have to be adjacent to your ally".

Why is everyone allowing bodyguard to be used with reach weapons? Am I missing something here?
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Aid Another

In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.

You can also use this standard action to help a friend in other ways, such as when he is affected by a spell, or to assist another character's skill check. 
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Bodyguard (Combat)

Your swift strikes ward off enemies attacking nearby allies.

Prerequisite: Combat reflexes.

Benefit: When an adjacent ally is attacked, you may use an attack of opportunity to attempt the aid another action to improve your ally’s AC. You may not use the aid another action to improve your ally’s attack roll with this attack.

Normal: Aid another is a standard action. 

[Darksol the Painbringer]

Aid Another requires that you are able to attack an enemy. Bodyguard requires that you are adjacent to an ally.

Using a reach weapon against an enemy that is 10 feet away while adjacent to your ally fulfills both requirements, even after the FAQ on Bodyguard stating you still need to normally meet standard Aid Another requirements.

There's nothing wrong with the combination, both RAW and RAI.

[Chess Pwn]

E
F
Y

Enemy is threatened by a reach weapon from You while You being adjacent to your Friend that you are helping. Keeps You safe and Friend safe. adding in a whip lets the enemy have reach in this situation and You can still protect your Friend.

[James Risner]

+1 Darksol/Chess
Adjacent to ally and able to make a melee vs enemy = Bodyguard & Aid Another fulfilled.

[Doomed Hero]

It is super weird to me that the most effective bodyguards are whip users with the line of feats that let you Threaten with them.

[Ferious Thune]

It’s an unfortunate side effect of the way the feat was ruled to work. But it’s at least consistent. I think the author posted somewhere with a different take on what was intended, but when clarification came it confirmed this is the way it works. Which makes me regret choosing a longsword for my bodyguard using character.

[MrCharisma]

Jose Suarez 310 wrote:

Am I missing something here?

For reference, here's the FAQ on how bodyguard works:

BODYGUARD wrote:

Bodyguard: The Bodyguard feat says that I can spend one of my attacks of opportunity to aid another the AC of an adjacent ally, but it doesn’t say one way or the other whether this removes other restrictions on aid another? Particularly, do I need to threaten the attacking enemy? Also, has that enemy provoked an attack of opportunity from me?

You still need to fulfill all requirements of aid another, including threatening the attacking enemy. Bodyguard uses up one of your attacks of opportunity for the round, but the enemy hasn’t provoked an attack of opportunity from you, nor are you making one (which is relevant for abilities like Paired Opportunist).

Note: This directly contradicts the original author, who said that the intent was that you didn't have to threaten the enemy to use this feat, you just had to be adjacent to you ally (sorry I don't have a link to quote that).

What that means is that in order to use Bodyguard you have to fulfil 2 criteria:
1. Threaten the enemy attacking your ally.
2. Be adjacent to the ally being attacked.

If you fulfil those 2 critera, then whether you have a reach weapon, or natural weapons, or are just holding the charge on a touch spell (which would let you threaten), or whatever, you're good to go. Using a reach weapon just makes it easier to fulfil the first part, which is why so many bodyguard builds decide to go that route.

[Jose Suarez 310]

Right so this means that you won't be able to use bodyguard with a reach weapon, you however can use this reach to threaten enemies around your allies which allows you to use "aid another" much more easier since you are threatening more enemies around your ally.

[Darksol the Painbringer]

Jose Suarez 310 wrote:

Right so this means that you won't be able to use bodyguard with a reach weapon -snip-

What?

Literally everybody else in this thread is saying that a reach weapon is, in fact, valid with Bodyguard as long as you are adjacent to the ally. How are you getting the exact opposite result out of what's been said and linked so far?

You don't need to be able to make attacks on your ally with the Bodyguard feat, you just need to be within 5 feet of your ally's position, while being able to attack an enemy. Even if you did, it'd follow Aid Another rules, which means even a non-Monk Unarmed Strike, while having your hands full, is a valid means of utilizing Aid Another, so using a reach weapon still qualifies, and is actually irrelevant to being able to attack your ally.

[Doomed Hero]

Dug into this a little more.

The original author's intent was that the Bodyguard character should not have to Threaten the attacker. They should only have to adjacent to the person being protected. In my opinion, that house rule should be used. It it the author's intent, and makes the feat usable and sensible. (It's weird that a Bodyguard can't guard against ranged weapons of any kind).

Secondly, if you do not adopt this house rule then anyone with the Bodyguard feat line should be looking to maximize their Reach. A Large sized spine flail with Effortless Lace seems to be the best Bodyguard possible weapon. If that weapon is not allowed,
then a Large sized Whip (with corrosponding mastery feats), or Flying Talon with Effortless Lace are the runners up. Apparently the most effective Golarion bodyguards are basically Kratos.

EDIT: I have found that getting the Suicidal trait via Adopted gives what a lot of bodyguard characters are looking for.

[Jose Suarez 310]

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Jose Suarez 310 wrote:

Right so this means that you won't be able to use bodyguard with a reach weapon -snip-

What?

Literally everybody else in this thread is saying that a reach weapon is, in fact, valid with Bodyguard as long as you are adjacent to the ally. How are you getting the exact opposite result out of what's been said and linked so far?

You don't need to be able to make attacks on your ally with the Bodyguard feat, you just need to be within 5 feet of your ally's position, while being able to attack an enemy. Even if you did, it'd follow Aid Another rules, which means even a non-Monk Unarmed Strike, while having your hands full, is a valid means of utilizing Aid Another, so using a reach weapon still qualifies, and is actually irrelevant to being able to attack your ally.

What I meant to say was that you need to be adjacent to your ally in order to make the bodyguard "attacks of opportunities" to aid another out of turn. I saw people using the reach just to get the attack of opportunities of bodyguard in allies which is wrong because you HAVE to be adjacent to your ally in order to make those AOO's. You can't be 15 FEET away from your ally and use the bodyguard feat, period. You need to be adjacent.

[Ferious Thune]

Correct. But a whip still opens up several additional squares that you could be in. As long as you meet both requirements.

[Darksol the Painbringer]

Nobody is suggesting that both your enemy and your ally are within range of your reach weapon, which still circles back to my original point that you're getting an incorrect interpretation of what everyone has said so far.

The closest thing is that people have stated is that the original intent of the feat was to not be required to be able to attack an enemy, but the FAQ overturns that intent, and anyone arguing otherwise is still wrong, even if it makes sense to run it that way.

[Jose Suarez 310]

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Nobody is suggesting that both your enemy and your ally are within range of your reach weapon, which still circles back to my original point that you're getting an incorrect interpretation of what everyone has said so far.

The closest thing is that people have stated is that the original intent of the feat was to not be required to be able to attack an enemy, but the FAQ overturns that intent, and anyone arguing otherwise is still wrong, even if it makes sense to run it that way.

I didn't say that you guys were suggesting it, I am talking about other google searches that I did, I found out that they were using it wrong.

[BigNorseWolf]

When the rules say "can make an attack" do they mean on that creatures turn or right now? There's a lot of ways to still be in reach but not AoOable. (like cover)

[Doomed Hero]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

When the rules say "can make an attack" do they mean on that creatures turn or right now?

I believe they mean "able to make an attack of opportunity." So yes, an enemy being behind cover would probably spoil the Bodyguard feat.

[Darksol the Painbringer]

Doomed Hero wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

When the rules say "can make an attack" do they mean on that creatures turn or right now?

I believe they mean "able to make an attack of opportunity." So yes, an enemy being behind cover would probably spoil the Bodyguard feat.

How about we reference the Aid Another rule first.

Aid Another wrote:

If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action.

Nothing mentioning "can make an attack" or "able to make an attack of opportunity," only that "you're in a position to make a melee attack against an opponent engaging a friend in melee combat."

Soft cover doesn't make you unable to attack an enemy, it just makes you unable to execute AoOs against that enemy.

[Doomed Hero]

Good point.