Additional questions about running RoW!


Reign of Winter


1) Cities of Golarion and the Irrisen splatbook: how useful /helpful / fun were these?

2) More generally, I've heard people grumble that the Player's Guide for this one wasn't great. Would you agree? I've also heard that the Winter Witch archetype is not great, even in the context of Irrisen, and the Winter Witch PrC is even worse. True?

Thanks in advance,

Doug M.


1) I really liked the Irrisen book and found it useful to give me some context around the country's culture and history.

2) It was alright, as much as any of them are. In my opinion there's no point playing anything icy as so many monsters have resistance to cold. It makes the Winter Witch a little pointless, but there is good loot for witches so playing a vanilla or other type could work.

As a separate point I'd suggest your party decides what the overall alignment is going to be. This AP really can lend itself to a good, neutral or evil party so they just need to decide what approach they want to take. The group I had were mostly good, so the tone was set in that direction and I made changes to some of the RP elements to reflect that.


Winter Witch is actually not a bad option in this AP, seeing how it gets immunity to cold at level 14 and has a modest amount of cold resistance before that. While you might find the amount of things with cold resistance annoying, most of those things also use cold damage meaning they'll be just as annoyed with you. The Winter Witch prestige class is probably one of the best in the game as it allows you to keep getting abilities from your old class at the levels you would have gotten them had you stayed, and allows you to ignore half a foes cold resistance, and eventually allow half the damage from your spells to ignore cold resistance and immunity à la Flame Strike. Heck, if you take the feat Prestigious Spellcaster you can have all that without sacrificing any spell levels for it.

Really the only issue with it is that you can't cast fire spells, but that isn't as big an issue as it seems because A) The amount of fire spells on the witch's spell list is pretty low anyway (There's more cold spells on the list and witches are more of a Save-or-Suck kind of class anyway, which being WW doesn't interfere with at all), B) nothing is stopping you from summoning creatures that know fire spells, and C) you can always use UMD to if you need fire magic (the archetype never said you can't use Spell Completion Items or things like it), but even if you ignore all of that you'll get bonuses to counterspelling or dispelling cold effects, which as you might imagine are pretty common in this AP.

Add in the thematic connections with the AP (and occasional lowered Knowledge DCs) Winter Witch is a surprisingly solid option for this AP.


I’m running my second group through this AP now - my first group broke up around the third book due to moves and difficulty getting together regularly.

A few general comments:

- cities of Golarion will be helpful for book 2 (when you are in Whitethrone) and the various campaign and player books for the area around Irrisen are also useful (people of the north, land of the Linnorm Kings etc) but so to will be people of the stars and the other resources for the planets

- having a witch in the party is definitely helpful and they will get some nice options (whether or not they go winter witch)

- more broadly the party will likely want to have some magic crafters eventually (it isn’t required but will be helpful especially in later books when their chances to sell loot and buy things are very limited). I’m planning on using some scaling magic items in part to compensate (and may reduce some treasure in the future as a result)

- I actually wouldn’t suggest asking the players early on about their alignment preferences - instead I would let them arrive at what they want to do about the dilemmas of the AP themselves. (And I think more so than many APs this is one where PCs might change alignments - deciding how to pick between Evils and choosing to serve one evil to defeat a more pressing global threat makes for real Roleplaying opportunities. (And I would probably minimize the head if not eliminate it entirely to make it more about their actual personal choices - albeit likely with a dose of the workings of fate...

- plan ahead of time for the likelihood of deaths and new PCs being needed. I’m rebuilding some NPCs as potential future PCs and I’m seeding a few things to help set up for future new PCs (changing how the mantle works slightly to make it clear that the PCs aren’t the only ones who have had a piece of the mantle given to. Realize that I’m book 3 and 4 new PCs will likely not be from familiar places for the players (and book 5 any new PC either would need to have been plans shifted/transported to the party, come from inside the hut or joined the party from earth... and book 6 would be even more challenging to introduce a new PC to the group (and to level up that many levels)

- keep in mind that the player guide doesn’t really spoil what this AP is about. It is NOT the Irrisen AP (Which the players guide might seem to suggest. It is the Baba Yaga AP and while yes it is also heavily winter themed it is also heavily fey influenced (the riders are unique fey, Fey are a big part of most of the books in a wide array of good and evil ways) and it is very much a Russian fairy tale inspired AP.

I also descibe it as Pathfinder does Doctor Who (with a hut that is bigger on the inside than the outside and which travels beteeen worlds and perhaps times) - and it is thus a great AP to allow players a fair amount of leeway in the character concepts they try.

Especially if you have a smal party this is also not easy mode pathfinder - especially book 1 (but also book 2) there are a lot of encounters that even run as written can threaten a party very very quickly. (Deaths in this AP I’ve tended to see characters die from one big attack - going one on one with an ice troll for example isn’t a good way to live long (at lower levels). However that said I am not going to get overly concerned if the party shortens a combat - for me the story is more vital than any given combat (and many aren’t as easy to end as the players might assume even if say a witch gets a slumber hex off.


1) Very useful for book #2. Especially the map.

2)
The players Guide - don't know. I wrote my own based upon how I intended to start things.
Ideally (IMO) the players should NOT know that they're about to be whisked off to a land of perpetual cold, witches, & fey. And they should definitely not be prepared to head off to another planet or WWI Russia....
So I'd just skip the PG altogether.

The Winter witch Archtype & PRC being mechanically good/bad/other isn't my concern as the DM.
(My) Winter Witches operate just fine. :)
This is much more important to one of my players though. He started as a druid & ended up needing a replacement character early in book 3.
So he made a Witch (Witch, WW archetype, WW PRC, Jadwiga) who'd been swallowed by the Hut while trying to help Nahzeena sap its' power back in Whitethrone. Of course that's not the story he sold to the rest of the party...
He's not noted for making ineffective characters & he seems happy enough. And he's able to handle the encounters.
He has commented though that it's odd how few cold spells are on the WW list.


I used the Irrisen book a lot for providing extra flavor and context in Whitethrone. I also used Cities of Golarion. I added some extra plotlines with the stilyagi and the theatre, because one of the players is a bard. It provided some memorable encounters.
I also used the cold sisters in a later stadium of this campaign.
We are almost at the end. The group will probably fight Elvanna next Saturday. I am going to add some Irrisen stuff (again from the Irrisen book) and then play Witch war legacy, with some adaptations.

Grand Lodge

@Luna: Are you going to jump into the witch war legacy after book 2? Or after book 6?


After book 6. Otherwise that adventure will be way too difficult. My group defeated Elvanna last Saturday, so we will be starting next time.

Grand Lodge

Ah, for some reason I thought you were at the end of book 2!


I didn't like the Player's Guide because it revealed a lot of things that some level 1 peasant living in Heldren couldn't possibly know. "You learned this growing up in Irrisen" ... no you didn't.
I wrote up a crunch summary and gave that to my players instead.

I borrowed a copy of Irrisen: Land of Eternal Winter and found it very helpful for book 2. There's nothing in there that you can't make up on the fly, if that isn't available. But it's a pretty fun resource.

I didn't have Cities of Golarion available, and have no idea how much it helps.

As to Winter Witch Archetype and Prestige Class, I'm a huge fan of letting the players play what they want. There are definitely role-playing situations where that will be hugely helpful. Some where your Witch will have to overcome a lot of (utterly justified) prejudice. Some fights will be trivial, some will be impossible. But that's more or less true for any class.

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