So I'm toying around with a character built around high mobility and touch spells - run up, slap 'em with a spell, and run away. So far I've decided on a ysoki themeless technomancer (ysoki for the moxie ability, themeless for Acrobatics as a class skill, and technomancer for a greater selection of offensive touch spells). Here's my build up to 6th level:
1st Level:
Str 9, Dex 18, Con 10, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10
Feat: Fleet
0th Spells: daze, detect magic, psychokinetic hand, transfer charge
1st Spells: jolting surge, magic missile
2nd Level:
Magic Hack: Energize Spell
New 0th Spell: telepathic message
New 1st Spell: grease
3rd Level:
Feat: Mobility
New 0th Spell: ghost sound
New 1st Spell: disguise self
4th Level:
2nd Spells: inject nanobots, spider climb
5th Level:
Str 11, Dex 19, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 10
Magic Hack: Spell Grenade
Feat: Agile Casting
New 2nd Spell: Microbot Assault
6th Level:
New 2nd Spell: Mirror Image
For gear, I'm looking at a decent pistol, some good light armor, a personal upgrade for Dex, a miniaturized Tier 1 computer, and a handful of situational spell chips.
What do you think? Any feats/spells/gear/magic hacks that I should pick up instead? What should I go for at higher levels?
Something to keep in mind is that You will never hit anything with 8 strength. Touch attacks use Strength as they are considered melee attacks.
P. 240 Defines Melee attacks as BAB + Strength
P. 271 Defines Range: Touch as melee attacks.
Only operative weapons can use Dexterity for attack rolls and touch attacks are not operative weapons.
Also Grenades are thrown weapons and therefore use strength for the attack roll like all thrown weapons.
There is no "touch" AC in Starfinder but you do get to target EAC which is usually a little lower than KAC.
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I'd be a bit more worried about survival in that build than you appear to be. Unless you drop the only enemy within reach of you you're going to have to eat an attack or two before you can try and tumble away again, and NPC attack bonuses are HIGH. You've picked the race that gives you the fewest HP, and has a penalty to your attack stat to boot. You're also not getting any stamina from con. So you'll have 5 SP & 7 HP for 12 total at level 1. I've seen more than one low level moon NPC that will reliably hit you, and drop you in two hits, and without good rolls. It'll improve as you level, but so will their damage.
I'd consider a different race, maybe a more balanced stat spread. You need something to survive the times when you miss your attack, or roll low damage, or don't make the tumble.
For what you have, I'd say remember that the grenade doesn't have to deal damage to carry a spell. And while level appropriate damage grenades are cost prohibitive a smoke grenade is cheap and provides cover. Add in blindfight (I'd do that instead of agile caster) so you can reroll those touch spells and suddenly you're just created some concealment that doesn't cause you issue. I'd also grab a batton or knife. The operative qualities will work for you, and this way you can threaten other casters or gun users when it's their turn, get them thinking more defensively.
Something to keep in mind is that You will never hit anything with 8 strength. Touch attacks use Strength as they are considered melee attacks.
P. 240 Defines Melee attacks as BAB + Strength
P. 271 Defines Range: Touch as melee attacks.Only operative weapons can use Dexterity for attack rolls and touch attacks are not operative weapons.
This I did not realize. Since the spell descriptions simply say "make a melee attack against the target's EAC", I assumed a roll with any melee weapon was acceptable, including an operative weapon.
Also Grenades are thrown weapons and therefore use strength for the attack roll like all thrown weapons.
Yeah, but you only need to hit AC 5 to get a grenade on target. At 5th level, with a +0 Str modifier, +3 BAB, and a -4 penalty w/o grenade proficiency, that's a -1 attack modifier, or a 70% chance to hit. Assuming I aimed directly at the target and the blast radius is 15 ft. (frag I), the grenade miss rules give a 75% of containing the original target in the off-target blast.
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Something to keep in mind is that You will never hit anything with 8 strength. Touch attacks use Strength as they are considered melee attacks.
P. 240 Defines Melee attacks as BAB + Strength
P. 271 Defines Range: Touch as melee attacks.Only operative weapons can use Dexterity for attack rolls and touch attacks are not operative weapons.
This I did not realize. Since the spell descriptions simply say "make a melee attack against the target's EAC", I assumed a roll with any melee weapon was acceptable, including an operative weapon.
Also Grenades are thrown weapons and therefore use strength for the attack roll like all thrown weapons.Yeah, but you only need to hit AC 5 to get a grenade on target. At 5th level, with a +0 Str modifier, +3 BAB, and a -4 penalty w/o grenade proficiency, that's a -1 attack modifier, or a 70% chance to hit. Assuming I aimed directly at the target and the blast radius is 15 ft. (frag I), the grenade miss rules give a 75% of containing the original target in the off-target blast.
NPC AC is low compared to PC, but you'll probably still want to avoid a negative.
And on grenades, I presumed you were only using them with the spell grenade hack, which grants proficiency for that attack. If you're planing to use grenades otherwise I'd highly advise against it without building for the option more. That non proficiently penalty is also a reduction to the save DC, that's a pretty big chunk to loose at once. As is any range penalty, so if you're within a single range increment to avoid that you have a chance of being withing the blast, maybe the only one in the blast.
So, this thread has inspired a different character concept in my mind: the punch-mage.
She would be a vesk who runs up to others and punches magic into them. The only way magic should be done!
Make sure to grab mystic strike too!
So, this thread has inspired a different character concept in my mind: the punch-mage.
She would be a vesk who runs up to others and punches magic into them. The only way magic should be done!
https://1d4chan.org/images/thumb/e/e4/Muscle_wizard.jpg/300px-Muscle_wizard .jpg
This, just scalier =p
And on grenades, I presumed you were only using them with the spell grenade hack, which grants proficiency for that attack.
I knew that, and I still forgot to factor it in. Yeah, I only plan to carry a few level 1 frag grenades for spell delivery.
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So, this thread has inspired a different character concept in my mind: the punch-mage.
She would be a vesk who runs up to others and punches magic into them. The only way magic should be done!
I've looked a bit into melee-casters before , but run into a bit of a hiccup where the races with Strength bonuses (Kasatha and Vesk) both have penalties to Intelligence, and Technomancers have more touch attack spells than Mystics do (although Mystics do have a large number of touch spells that focus on buffing or healing, so you could always punch someone's injuries away).
If you start the game with 14 Int, that's enough to raise it to 20 by level 20. The Vesk Int penalty is a penalty, don't get me wrong, but it isn't insurmountable.
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Also if your Gm will allow quick pick stat arrays you can effectively ignore the penalty.
Korasha Lashunta have a bonus to strength without a penalty to intelligence.
But they don't get the natural weapons that the vesk do. That really is the most compelling reason to pick a vesk for a punch caster.
Vesk also get an AC boost, and you don't need a lot of INT if your focus is touch spells. No save DC needed.
Every touch spell except Jolting Surge has a save, actually.
But again, a Vesk who starts with 14 Int (a reasonable starting score) ends up being only at a -1 modifier compared to a character who started with 18 Int, due to the way Starfinder's ability score increases work. So it really isn't that unworkable a concept.
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You guys have intrigued me. So our theoretical muscle wizard would go something like:
Korazak the puncher
Vesk Technomancer outlaw (CN)
Clearly insane, Korazak believes he has discovered a new form of 'punching magic.' His subversive behavior (and explosive confrontations) have led to arrest warrants across the Veskarium.
Str: 16 dex:11 Con:12 Int:14 wis:10 Chr:10
HP:11, Stamina 6
Fort:+1, Ref:+0, will:+2 (saves +2 vs fear)
Level 0 spells: detect magic, PK hand, mending, dancing lights
Level 1: Jolting surge, magic missile (missiles look like fists)
Skills: computers +6, engineering +6, culture +3, mysticism +4, slight of hand +5, profession-teaching the way of the muscle wizard:+6
Feats: Heavy armor proficiency
Stuff: Hidden Soldier armor, generic starting gear. Needler pistol.
Spell cache: pair of 'sacred' punching gloves.
Probably something like that, yeah. Probably boosting Str, Dex, Con, and Int whenever they can.
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I've looked a bit into melee-casters before , but run into a bit of a hiccup where the races with Strength bonuses (Kasatha and Vesk) both have penalties to Intelligence, and Technomancers have more touch attack spells than Mystics do (although Mystics do have a large number of touch spells that focus on buffing or healing, so you could always punch someone's injuries away).So, this thread has inspired a different character concept in my mind: the punch-mage.
She would be a vesk who runs up to others and punches magic into them. The only way magic should be done!
Keep in mind that "melee touch" still is just a regular melee attack vs. EAC as opposed to KAC. Generally bad guys only have a 1 to 2 AC difference between the 2. You also run into the problem at level 1 - 3 spells/day plus your spell cache.
If you're doing this more as a fun concept vs. an optimized concept - then I'm 100% for it, but... by the time your Vesk Soldier buddy can afford an ember flame doshko at second level, you'll be on pretty equal footing.
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I've looked a bit into melee-casters before , but run into a bit of a hiccup where the races with Strength bonuses (Kasatha and Vesk) both have penalties to Intelligence, and Technomancers have more touch attack spells than Mystics do (although Mystics do have a large number of touch spells that focus on buffing or healing, so you could always punch someone's injuries away).So, this thread has inspired a different character concept in my mind: the punch-mage.
She would be a vesk who runs up to others and punches magic into them. The only way magic should be done!
Keep in mind that "melee touch" still is just a regular melee attack vs. EAC as opposed to KAC. Generally bad guys only have a 1 to 2 AC difference between the 2. You also run into the problem at level 1 - 3 spells/day plus your spell cache.
If you're doing this more as a fun concept vs. an optimized concept - then I'm 100% for it, but... by the time your Vesk Soldier buddy can afford an ember flame doshko at second level, you'll be on pretty equal footing.
We are building a character that has the weakest HP and Stamina in the game, has a racial penalty to their casting stat, and turning them into an up-front melee combatant who 'punches the magic into them.' I don't think anyone here was under the delusion that we were making an optimized character.
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We are building a character that has the weakest HP and Stamina in the game, has a racial penalty to their casting stat, and turning them into an up-front melee combatant who 'punches the magic into them.' I don't think anyone here was under the delusion that we were making an optimized character.I've looked a bit into melee-casters before , but run into a bit of a hiccup where the races with Strength bonuses (Kasatha and Vesk) both have penalties to Intelligence, and Technomancers have more touch attack spells than Mystics do (although Mystics do have a large number of touch spells that focus on buffing or healing, so you could always punch someone's injuries away).So, this thread has inspired a different character concept in my mind: the punch-mage.
She would be a vesk who runs up to others and punches magic into them. The only way magic should be done!
Keep in mind that "melee touch" still is just a regular melee attack vs. EAC as opposed to KAC. Generally bad guys only have a 1 to 2 AC difference between the 2. You also run into the problem at level 1 - 3 spells/day plus your spell cache.
If you're doing this more as a fun concept vs. an optimized concept - then I'm 100% for it, but... by the time your Vesk Soldier buddy can afford an ember flame doshko at second level, you'll be on pretty equal footing.
I never know on these forumsn. People are trying eek free hardness and HP on an Android using tensile reinforcement.
This thread caught my eye because I keep making Vesk builds (I have an exocortex Vesk mechanic potentially for the AP) I was going to build the same thing except I ended up using the "supercharge weapon" spell instead. After playetesting it though, burning an action before punching wasn't effective until level 3 when you pick up specialization with your punches.
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Fun fact: all of the junkbot spells have a range of touch.
I'm imagining our punch-caster punching a heap of spare parts, which causes a fully-functional robot fly out the other side of the heap. It's a fun mental image.
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Fun fact: all of the junkbot spells have a range of touch.
I'm imagining our punch-caster punching a heap of spare parts, which causes a fully-functional robot fly out the other side of the heap. It's a fun mental image.
You punch a bunch of junk to make a battle junkbot, with an enormous serated fist-hand and a 'special gun' that shoots fists instead of bullets.
Get it right!