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So the question is what is the damage of a spirited charging spellstriking magus/cavalier?
Mounted spirited charging magus, with a lance, Holding the charge of Shocking grasp CL3(3d6 electricity)
3d8+3d6+STR+MOD (no bonus)
3d8+6d6+STR+MOD (bonus damage from spirited charge)
3d8+9d6+STR+MOD (bonus amplified by lance/spirited charge)
Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keenweapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
Spirited Charge (Combat)
Your mounted charge attacks deal a tremendous amount of damage.
Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack.
Benefit: When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with a melee weapon (or triple damage with a lance).
You would deal triple damage with your weapon.
So 3(1d8) + 3(Str*1.5) + 3(enhancement) + 3(other things normally multipled on a crit, such as Weapon Spec) + spell damage.
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So the question is what is the damage of a spirited charging spellstriking magus/cavalier?
Mounted spirited charging magus, with a lance, Holding the charge of Shocking grasp CL3(3d6 electricity)
3d8+3d6+STR+MOD (no bonus)
3d8+6d6+STR+MOD (bonus damage from spirited charge)
3d8+9d6+STR+MOD (bonus amplified by lance/spirited charge)
Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keenweapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
Spirited Charge (Combat)
Your mounted charge attacks deal a tremendous amount of damage.
Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack.
Benefit: When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with a melee weapon (or triple damage with a lance).
So your telling me, the GM, I should kill your mount. Got it.
Or just make NPCs that brace for charges really common...Or just alter the terrain, so charging is harder to do. The GM has quite a few options to nerf this one without directly nerfing it.
Not certain if the lance is a one handed weapon for spell combat purposes, but I don't really want to debate that one. I'll take your word on it.
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Though thinking about this more, I will note that you do get a concentration check for casting spell while mounted. Rules for this are in the magic section. They specifically mention that a riding a "Galloping horse" would be a DC 15+spell level concentration check. I think there's a feat to negate this check, but that's another feat you'd need for this.
I'm also unclear if the magnus (or anyone) can cast as part of charge. You could cast one turn, and then charge the next turn, but you'd have to be careful not to touch the horse...
Lance is definitely not compatible with Spell Combat, but it is compatible with Spellstrike which only requires a melee weapon.
Really there is nothing special about this.
It's doing what a regular cavalier could with the lance, and then adding a normal shocking grasp damage as well. Except a magus doing this wont have the same feat availability as a cavalier and wont have a mount which levels with them for free.
And yes, in my statements I was assuming the magus had cast shocking grasp in a previous round and then proceeded to charge in the next round.
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And yes, in my statements I was assuming the magus had cast shocking grasp in a previous round and then proceeded to charge in the next round.
Well, if he's mounted in the previous round (and no galloping), it's only a DC10+spell level concentration check to cast while mounted.
There's a reason mounted spellcasting isn't too common in pathfinder...
I would think there would be no conc check with a stationary mount.
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This is a level 7 character, 3 magus, 4 gendarme cavalier. horse master feat at 7 back into magus for the rest of the game. yea you can kill the mount i guess, but that's what the spell "mount" is for XD
For spell combat it is probably not going to fly that you are mounted and the lance can be wielded with one hand because its super type of two handed weapon doesn't change. but a girl can dream
Spell strike works, holding the charge works, quickened shocking grasp plus charging works. the question is whether or not the damage gets doubled or attached to the x3 damage of a lance. if you spirited charge with just a touch attack the damage will go from 3d6 to 6d6 because touch attacks are weapon attacks IRRC.
I know that one of these answers is correct, I'm mostly just looking for a layering order of operations to figure out which one is the correct answer.
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This is a level 7 character, 3 magus, 4 gendarme cavalier. horse master feat at 7 back into magus for the rest of the game. yea you can kill the mount i guess, but that's what the spell "mount" is for XD
Pretty sure you can still kill the summoned mount. Says it summons a light horse or pony. Not sure why it wouldn't have HP like any other summoned creature. Bestiary has entries for those (Neither are combat trained...). Though the viability of such a devastating charge goes dramagically down if you have to burn lots of rounds to set up that one charge.
I would think there would be no conc check with a stationary mount.
Correct, if truly stationary, no concentration required for mounted casting. But for any movement, DC 10+spell level, and for "galloping" that would be DC 15+Spell Level. I would definitely consider a charge to be "galloping."
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right but the extra damage from spell strike is a type of weapon damage, if it wasn't attached to the lance it would 100% double from spirited charge. as in spirited charge with the touch attack of hocking grasp is modified by spirited charge to 6d6.
So these exist without a critical hit.
3d8+3d6+STR+MOD (no bonus)
3d8+6d6+STR+MOD (bonus damage from spirited charge)
3d8+9d6+STR+MOD (bonus amplified by lance/spirited charge)
with a critical hit this becomes
5d8+6d6+5xSTR+5xMOD (no bonus)
5d8+9d6+5xSTR+5xMOD (spirited charge)
5d8+12d6+5xSTR+5xMOD (bonus amplified by lance/spirited charge, noted in spell strike weapon crit stays as x2 so it would be 12d6)
Honestly I thonk the wording on spellstrike makes it ambiguous enough that it can go either way.
I'd likely go with spell damage is not multiplied, except on a crit, as lance chargers honestly do sufficient damage anyway.
I agree about the sufficient damage portion. I also see the logic of the exception to extra damage dice, but the total clarification has to come from whether or not spellstrike makes the energy damage a portion of the weapon damage and not precision/elemental based on a weapon property.
It's none of those. The damage is spell damage from the spell shocking grasp. It's definitely not weapon damage.
Spellstrike merely allows you to deliver the spell through your weapon, rather than using your hand to perform a normal touch attack to deliver the shocking grasp.
I think the main problem with the OP understanding how this works is they've somehow incorrectly gotten the idea that the damage from Shocking Grasp is anything other than spell damage.
Using spellstrike to change how the spell is delivered doesn't change that the 3d6 electricity damage is coming from a spell, not a weapon.
I think this problem partially stems from the idea the OP has that touch attacks are weapon attacks. Which isn't entirely incorrect, but touch attacks deal no damage (they sort of count as weapons in the sense that if you had a buff that added to melee attack rolls it would increase your bonus to hit with a touch attack). They are a method of delivering spells, SLAs, etc.
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Could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that a spell can critically hit if an attack roll is required. A damaging spell will deal double damage in such a case.
What I'm unclear about, is if you use a weapon attack to deliever your spell, instead of directly attacking with the spell, if the critical hit from that applies to the spell, since the spell isn't rolling to hit.
Could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that a spell can critically hit if an attack roll is required. A damaging spell will deal double damage in such a case.
Spells can critically hit, you're correct. But that has nothing to do with whether or not Shocking Grasp is weapon damage.
Shocking Grasp simply doesn't interact with Sprited Charge (or the double damage from lance charging in general). Why? Because those things are referring to weapon damage.
The original post didn't mention a critical hit, so we haven't really been discussing it. However, spellstrike explains exactly how it functions with regard to a critical hit. Which is you use the critical threat range of the weapon, but the spell always only deals x2 damage. This is why Magi use scimitars, because they have an 18-20 crit range (with x2 damage modifier) which can be expanded into 15-20. Magi don't get anything out of higher crit damage modifiers.
What I'm unclear about, is if you use a weapon attack to deliever your spell, instead of directly attacking with the spell, if the critical hit from that applies to the spell, since the spell isn't rolling to hit.
As I mentioned, the answer is in the description for the entry of Spellstrike. It makes it very explicitly obvious you can critical hit, and what it does.
I think that there is a strong argument for spirited charge doubling the damage. Forget the magus for a moment. Say a wizard holds the charge on shocking grasp and makes a mounted charge with it. I feel that spirited charge would double his damage here.
I think that there is a strong argument for spirited charge doubling the damage. Forget the magus for a moment. Say a wizard holds the charge on shocking grasp and makes a mounted charge with it. I feel that spirited charge would double his damage here.
No it wouldn't. A touch attack does not deal melee weapon damage. It deals spell damage. Spirited charge specifies your melee weapon deals double damage. A touch attack deals 0 weapon damage.