Does the Burning critical effect work in a vacuum?


Rules Questions


During our play through of the Dead Suns Adventure Path, our operative rolled a crit on a creature while we were in a vacuum. Now, we checked the book to see if Burning would work while in said vacuum, and the book says nothing.
So, I would like to know peoples opinions on how this might work. To continue the campaign, we decided that rolling 1d4 to determine how many rounds it lasts, but I'm just not sure if that is balanced or not.


Is it odd? Yep. Does fire work in a vacuum? Yep.


Note that, for most characters, there's a minimum of one source of oxygen near them even in space: their own life support.


Yes it does, and it's even logically sound thanks to the insanely unscientific rules of this system's life support.

In Starfinder, all armor comes with complete environmental protection that is magically impenetrable.

Starfinder CRB - Armor - Environmental Protection wrote:
Unless otherwise specified, all armors protect you from a range of hazards to ensure that you can survive for at least a few days if you must make emergency repairs to the hull of a Starship, explore an alien world, or endure exposure to an environmental breach in a space station. Some armors do this through an environmental field (a minor force field specially attuned to pressure and temperature that does not reduce damage from attacks), while others can be closed with helmets and airtight seals.

No where do the rules say anything about damage being able to disrupt this protection in any way. So when you get hit with a bullet or laser, the damage is done but your environment stays intact. Is this scientifically ridiculous? Yes. Does it allow for more fun gameplay because players aren't terrified of stepping foot into deadly environments as their life support could fail when they inevitably get hit in combat? Absolutely.

So, by the game's own logic, your life support cannot be disrupted and thus you could be on fire in space. The life support will provide the fire the same protection it provides the player, ironically.

Unless your players are in vacuum without life support of any kind (in which case, a little fire damage is the least of their problems), they can be set on fire, or have any other effect work on them as it would in a standard planetary environment.


I'm going to say no.

While armor may provide you, the person on the inside of the armor environmental protection, the burning fire is on the outside. The only way air from inside could fuel the fire on the outside is if the protection gets breached, which damage can't do.

Dark Archive

Your logic is sound by my understanding of physics HWalsh. But this is starfinder ( kicks logic into a pit) and unless the environment specifically States and effect does not work then it works. Another way to look at this if you want is the fact that the weapon did any damage at all means it somehow bypassed the armor so the burn effect also has passed the armor maybe the laser shot found a weak seal and started a small fire inside the armor who knows?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There's a thread in which people are brainstorming ideas on how penetrated armors protect their owners.

Things like instant sealant closing the holes made by the weapon,and things of that nature.

It is entirely conceivable that your weapon could penetrate the suit and set the wearer on fire, then be sealed through automatic failsafes.

If the damage/fire kills the occupant, than it could be described as having been too catastrophic for the failsafes to do much for the victim.


Aside from life support, the material itself can provide oxygen for a fire (i think thats called a class Delta fire? where normal fire fighting techniques dont work because the thing sustains its own flames), in the end the rules are somewhat abstract so the burning effect does take place barring a house rule and you either justify it as you wish or ignore why it happens and just get on with it.


I find it weirder that a laser converted to two non-fire types of damage via weapon fusions still has Burn as a critical effect, but that's the case.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Lasers only do one damage, Xenocrat. Wouldn't they then only be converted to one other type of damage?

The only time you end up with two types of damage, is when it began that way, such as with a plasma weapon.


Corrosive, Flaming, Frost, Shock, Thundering wrote:
Half the weapon’s damage type is replaced with XXX... If the weapon already deals two types of damage, replace one of them with XXX... You can add this fusion only to a weapon that does not already deal XXX

Every elemental infusion splits the damage type for single damage weapons. If the weapon already deals 2 types you pick which is replaced.


As a side note, I am trying to figure out a good way to stop "burning" when my armor is some type of hard space suit or hard power armor. ie do you have to essentially take it off to get to the burning area?

MDC


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Ravingdork wrote:

Lasers only do one damage, Xenocrat. Wouldn't they then only be converted to one other type of damage?

The only time you end up with two types of damage, is when it began that way, such as with a plasma weapon.

Two sequentially activated elemental fusions on a single element weapon can remove the original, standard element. So you can have a laser that does half cold, half electricity damage, but still does burn on a critical hit.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ah. I thought it only changed half in the case of double energy weapons. My mistake.

Dataphiles

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Space McMan wrote:
In Starfinder, all armor comes with complete environmental protection that is magically impenetrable.

Considering this is setting in which actual magic is an integral component of most technology, magically impenetrable life-support doesn't seem like much of a stretch conceptually. "Life Bubble" is a basic first-level spell, it seems pretty likely that a permanent version of it is worked into most spacesuits made in the Pact Worlds.

Even without magic, I can imagine a technological forcefield that's just strong enough to retain atmosphere/heat around your body, but not powerful enough to interfere with an incoming bullet or plasma blast.

Space McMan wrote:
Unless your players are in vacuum without life support of any kind (in which case, a little fire damage is the least of their problems), they can be set on fire, or have any other effect work on them as it would in a standard planetary environment.

The Star Shaman Mystic gets automatic immunity to the harmful effects of vacuum as a first level connection power, letting them fly through space naked without any life support. And some creatures are native to outer space environments (e.g. Sarcesians). In those sort of cases I could see ruling that the Burn effect doesn't work. Otherwise I agree, you can absolutely be on fire in space.


Gunpowder and Thermite will burn in a vacuum. Somethings can combust sans external oxygen.


I haven't tried to climb inside a vacuum

Yet.


EC Gamer Guy wrote:
Gunpowder and Thermite will burn in a vacuum. Somethings can combust sans external oxygen.

A lot of explosives produce their own oxygen and or other gasses so once the reaction gets started then things can react with those elements that are present, but not before.

MDC


Not just a lot. *All* explosives provide their own oxidizer. You can't get a boom relying just on ambient oxygen, there just isn't enough to fuel the rapid reaction. At least, barring particulate explosions, which are hard as hell to set up.


Metaphysician wrote:
Not just a lot. *All* explosives provide their own oxidizer. You can't get a boom relying just on ambient oxygen, there just isn't enough to fuel the rapid reaction. At least, barring particulate explosions, which are hard as hell to set up.

Yes you provide the oxidizer (plan for it) when you want it to go boom and denie it for when you do not want it to go boom.

MDC

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