Solarian Solar Manifestation - Perfect Darkness of a Black Hole

[Keante]

Starfinder CRB, Solarian class section wrote:

You also choose whether your solar manifestation (in any form) either glows brightly with one color common to stars (including blue, red, white, or yellow) or is the perfect darkness of a black hole. A glowing solar manifestation, regardless of its form, sheds dim light in a 20-foot radius. You can shut off the light or darkness as a standard action in order to blend in or assist in stealth, but whenever you enter a stellar mode (see page 102), the glow or darkness returns immediately.

Bold emphasis mine.

Are we missing a sentence in here that describes how a dark solar manifestation lowers the light level by one step in a 20-foot radius? If not, what "darkness" is the last sentence describing when it says you can shut it off?

[Cyrad]

The first time I saw this ability, I misread the second sentence saying that the solar manifestation glows light regardless of form. Sort of like a black hole that emits an aura of light out from its event horizon.

Now that I read it again, you're absolutely right. It seems like there's a sentence missing. As written, a darkness solar manifestation has no effect on the light level.

[Keante]

Cyrad wrote:

The first time I saw this ability, I misread the second sentence saying that the solar manifestation glows light regardless of form. Sort of like a black hole that emits an aura of light out from its event horizon.

Now that I read it again, you're absolutely right. It seems like there's a sentence missing. As written, a darkness solar manifestation has no effect on the light level.

Yep, I can see how you might think "regardless of form" means the glowing manifestation or the black hole manifestation, but "form" is the word used in the sentences prior to the start of my quote when talking about weapon vs armor.

Anyway, if there's not a sentence missing here, I guess you can explain it as the option to make your mote of darkness (which is a purely visual effect with no effect on light level) disappear...but that doesn't feel right to me after reading the language in this paragraph.

[Space McMan]

Yeah, this one really puzzled me too. I could make a solid argument for the dark manifestation having no effect on the ambient light levels and you can turn it off for the sake of blending into a crowd if it wasn't for that last stupid line

Starfinder CRB, Solar Manifestation wrote:

but whenever you enter a stellar mode (see page 102), the glow or darkness returns immediately.

The glow or darkness returns immediately. The darkness returns.

What darkness????

I've got nothing.

[Xenocrat]

Space McMan wrote:

Yeah, this one really puzzled me too. I could make a solid argument for the dark manifestation having no effect on the ambient light levels and you can turn it off for the sake of blending into a crowd if it wasn't for that last stupid line

Starfinder CRB, Solar Manifestation wrote:

but whenever you enter a stellar mode (see page 102), the glow or darkness returns immediately.

The glow or darkness returns immediately. The darkness returns.

What darkness????

I've got nothing.

The darkness you shot your magic mote into.

[Mark Carlson 255]

The first question that popped into my mind was if your Solar Man gives off light does it cause a problem when you are trying to hide in the darkness and the reverse.
ie at night your eye is drawn to small changes in light and this can be a huge thing if you do not want it to be so.
MDC

[KingOfAnything]

Your mote either glows or is a floating ball of darkness. You can suppress the glowing ball of darkness if you want to blend in, but if you enter combat it comes back.

[Keante]

Mark Carlson 255 wrote:

The first question that popped into my mind was if your Solar Man gives off light does it cause a problem when you are trying to hide in the darkness and the reverse.

ie at night your eye is drawn to small changes in light and this can be a huge thing if you do not want it to be so.
MDC

I'd say it's certainly a problem if you're trying to hide in darkness but you have this mote following you that sheds dim light. It would make sense to me for a dark mote to have a reverse effect. It could be just like that portion of the effect of an orb of shadows (just leave out the +1 to incoming laser attacks and the resist 5 fire to lasers).

[TranslucentDuck]

...You must pick one solar manifestation (either armor or a weapon) upon taking your first level of solarian. You also choose whether your solar manifestation (in any form) either glows brightly with one color common to stars (including blue, red, white, or yellow) or is the perfect darkness of a black hole. A glowing solar manifestation, regardless of its form, sheds dim light in a 20-foot radius. You can shut off the light or darkness as a standard action in order to blend in or assist in stealth...

the darkness simply refers to the mote. At no point does it refer to the dark mote as shedding dim light. Given, this ability was not written in an easy to digest form ...

[Quantum Steve]

It's not missing anything. A Solar's mote does not shed darkness. If nothing else this is for balance.

[Rysky the Dark Solarion]

But it sheds light.

[Ravingdork]

Black light. :P

[KingOfAnything]

Only star-colored motes shed light.

[Quantum Steve]

Motes either glow brightly or are perfect darkness. Glowing motes shed light, non- glowing motes shed nothing.

[Ravingdork]

Quantum Steve wrote:

Motes either glow brightly or are perfect darkness. Glowing motes shed light, non- glowing motes shed nothing.

They absorb, reflect, or shed something, otherwise you wouldn't be able to see them. They just don't appear to be able to effect the surrounding light conditions is all.

[Keante]

It just feels lopsided for a solarian who chooses a glowing manifestation to affect light level, but not a solarian who chooses a dark manifestation.

And when I read that paragraph it leaves me feeling like a sentence is missing.

Quantum Steve wrote:

It's not missing anything. A Solar's mote does not shed darkness. If nothing else this is for balance.

Is there a balance problem with a dark manifestation affecting the light level?

[Tarik Blackhands]

Clearly there is considering Paizo declared the at will adjusting of light levels 1 step up or down got blended into your capstone.

(Totally unrelated, but man does the Stellar Paragon blow chunks as a capstone)

[HWalsh]

Tarik Blackhands wrote:

Clearly there is considering Paizo declared the at will adjusting of light levels 1 step up or down got blended into your capstone.

(Totally unrelated, but man does the Stellar Paragon blow chunks as a capstone)

Oh no. You're quite wrong.

Stellar Paragon is crazy good. A Solarian can use it to wreak unspeakable havoc. Tremendous havoc. The fact that it can allow resolve-depended zenith Revelations to be fired nearly back to back and completely negates the penalty for unbalanced revelation ratios. I've done simulated combats with it. Ridiculous potential destruction.

The ability to swap attunement is GREAT as you can swap when needed for Revelations (Zenith or Normal) can be a stupidly good and useful thing. This allows strategies that normally would be COMPLETELY impossible.

[Quantum Steve]

Keante wrote:

It just feels lopsided for a solarian who chooses a glowing manifestation to affect light level, but not a solarian who chooses a dark manifestation.

And when I read that paragraph it leaves me feeling like a sentence is missing.

Quantum Steve wrote:

It's not missing anything. A Solar's mote does not shed darkness. If nothing else this is for balance.

Is there a balance problem with a dark manifestation affecting the light level?

Affecting the light level 1 step up is easily accomplished with a variety of light sources. Most races need light to see and normal light conditions don't carry any additional benefits or penalties to most creatures.

Dim light and darkness, however, do carry additional penalties. Being able to lower the light level to dim light gives the Solarian a 20% miss chance against any creature without darkvision. As an at-will ability from 1st level, this is FAR more powerful than being able to raise the light level.

[FenrisTheBlack]

Does it have to decrease the light level? Maybe a bonus to stealth checks in dim light? You would be wearing armour made of perfect darkness after all.

[Tender Tendrils]

Can I attack the darkness?

[gnrrrg]

I've read this paragraph over and over again and the only interpretation that I can get with what is written is that both manifestations give you a "body suit" of armour. A glowing body suit is the colour of the star, a black body suit is just a black bodysuit (possibly making some of your features indistinguishable because people are seeing a lot of black on black, but not giving you any game effects).

The glowing armour specifically gives of 20 ft of dim light, the black armour does not specifically give of anything. Reference to the darkness returning when you enter stellar mode is referring to the colour of the armour, not to any darkness being emitted from it. That is, people can tell that you are in stellar mode.

Turning off the stellar mode for stealth or to blend in is an either or thing. If you have glowing armour then you want to turn it off in order to be stealthy. If you have black armour then you would want to turn it off in order to blend into a crowd (i.e. not be the creepy guy in black).

That is the only explanation I can come up with that explains what is written without resorting to errata.

[GM Nitemare]

Starfinder CRB, Solarian class section wrote wrote:

"You also choose whether your solar manifestation (in any form) either glows brightly with one color common to stars (including blue, red, white, or yellow) or is the perfect darkness of a black hole. A glowing solar manifestation, regardless of its form, sheds dim light in a 20-foot radius.You can shut off the light or darkness as a standard action in order to blend in or assist in stealth..."

I'm still scratching my head with this one...You can shut off the darkness? By RAW the darkness does nothing, how is that balanced?

Why would you need to spend a standard action to blend in when the darkness is doing nothing...Only the glowing solar manifestation sheds dim light.

[Xenocrat]

Absolute black is actually eye catching when you're trying to hide, even if there are no rules for it. This allows you to ignore that real world concern if it bothers you.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

You make a good point, Xenograph. If the room is dim but there's still a bit of light, someone wearing Vantablack would stand out as a completely black shape, especially if they're moving and not trying to disguise their movements. And Anish Kapoor is a big wet boy.