| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Let's say I have Slashing Grace and Quick Draw, and I'm using a quickdraw shield. Could I take a free action to put away the shield, make my attacks with Slashing Grace active (because my hand is now free), and then free action don the shield again? Perhaps less drastically, without the Quick Draw feat could I make my attacks then don my shield as a swift, then put it away at the start of next round before making my attacks again?
Similarly, it's very clear from the FAQ ruling that Slashing Grace and Spell Combat are incompatible... but what about Slashing Grace and Spellstrike? To cast a spell with somatic components, you must be using your off hand. But the attack you make from casting that spell is a different action, a free action you can take at any other point in the turn.
Or, for the simplest and yet most obvious of questions, what if I slide down a rope with my off hand, land on the ground, release the rope, and then Slashing Grace attack?
The crux of my question is, at what point does your other hand have to be "free and unoccupied:" for the entire round, or just when taking the actual actions involved in attacking?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
"If you have the Quick Draw feat, you may don or put away a quickdraw shield as a free action. "
Since GMs are explicitly allowed to restrict free actions, I'm going to interpret that as "If you have the Quickdraw feat, as a free action, you may don OR put away a quickdraw shield. But not both on the same turn."
Let's say I have Slashing Grace and Quick Draw, and I'm using a quickdraw shield. Could I take a free action to put away the shield, make my attacks with Slashing Grace active (because my hand is now free), and then free action don the shield again? Perhaps less drastically, without the Quick Draw feat could I make my attacks then don my shield as a swift, then put it away at the start of next round before making my attacks again?
With both a Quickdraw Shield and the Quick Draw feat, I would say you'd be able to do both as a free action, not as a swift. The Quickdraw Shield description is quite clear on that point. I think this is the correct mechanical effect, for the same reason that you can be wielding a two-handed weapon, cast a spell, then make an attack of opportunity with your weapon.
Where I would have issues is if you tried to claim that you could pull your shield back out and stow it again during your attacks. For instance, if someone readied an action to shoot an arrow at you when you attacked their ally, you wouldn't get the shield's AC bonus.
Alternatively, if you wished to, I would call for a Dexterity check to draw your shield (DC 12 to 15), but you wouldn't be able to stow it again before finishing your attacks for the round. In effect, you would have to choose between the AC bonus and your remaining Slashing Grace. If the Dexterity check fails, it means you dropped your shield in your square and would need to pick it up before you could use it again.
Similarly, it's very clear from the FAQ ruling that Slashing Grace and Spell Combat are incompatible... but what about Slashing Grace and Spellstrike? To cast a spell with somatic components, you must be using your off hand. But the attack you make from casting that spell is a different action, a free action you can take at any other point in the turn.
Spell Combat explicitly states that it behaves like Two-Weapon Fighting, which means your off-hand is occupied. Slashing Grace requires your off-hand to not be occupied. This part is pretty straight-forward.
Spellstrike is something else entirely. Casting the spell requires a free hand, as does Slashing Grace, so you should be okay there. The fact that you're getting a melee attack as part of the spell is irrelevant; the ability does not treat your casting hand as being occupied, so you still would get the benefits of Slashing Grace.
Or, for the simplest and yet most obvious of questions, what if I slide down a rope with my off hand, land on the ground, release the rope, and then Slashing Grace attack?
A classic stunt, and releasing the rope is easily part of landing on the ground if that's how you want to land. I see no problems here.
The crux of my question is, at what point does your other hand have to be "free and unoccupied:" for the entire round, or just when taking the actual actions involved in attacking?
It must be free while you're attacking. This includes attacks of opportunity, by the way. If you're planning on having your shield equipped while you're not actively attacking, you don't get Slashing Grace on opportunity attacks.
A Ring of Force Shield, since you can change its state at will as a free action, should allow you to have that hand "free and unoccupied" whenever you wish, multiple times per round. It's described as having no weight or encumbrance, so your GM might decide to just give it to you. The way the activation is described, you can swap it on and off at the speed of thought, so that would seem to be the best option for having a constant shield bonus and still getting the free hand you need for Slashing Grace.
If you can don and put away your shield as free actions, then yeah, you're solid.
Or use a buckler.
|
Seems like Fortified Armor Training would go really well with a shield that can be doned and discarded as a free action. Basically grants immunity to critical hits as long as you have a stack of quickdraw shields...
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'd call this an exploit of the turn system, like closing your eyes during your turn to avoid mirror image but then opening them again so you're not flatfooted during enemy turns. Everything is actually happening at once, and we have to use turns to make any sense of it, but it isn't like your character is making his attacks and then sitting around doing nothing while the enemies go. If you're not using your shield during your attacks, you don't have it during your opponent's attacks either.
I'd call this an exploit of the turn system, like closing your eyes during your turn to avoid mirror image but then opening them again so you're not flatfooted during enemy turns.
This is effectively blinding yourself temporarily, making all of your attacks as if your opponent is invisible. Thus, you would have a 50% miss chance on every swing. Yes, you would avoid the mirror image effect, but that's not exactly an improvement.
Everything is actually happening at once, and we have to use turns to make any sense of it, but it isn't like your character is making his attacks and then sitting around doing nothing while the enemies go. If you're not using your shield during your attacks, you don't have it during your opponent's attacks either.
Mechanically, your turn's actions are self-contained. Yes, they're all happening in relatively quick sequence in the same span of 6-ish seconds, but you don't miss your attacks on your action just because your opponent is going to be moving 15 feet on their turn.
There's logic that helps the game make sense, and there's logic that serves to undermine the mechanics. It's not hard to tell which one this is. According to the rules (this is the Rules Questions subforum, after all), this isn't an exploit, it's the stated purpose for taking such a combination of shield and feat.
Let's say I have Slashing Grace and Quick Draw, and I'm using a quickdraw shield. Could I take a free action to put away the shield, make my attacks with Slashing Grace active (because my hand is now free), and then free action don the shield again? Perhaps less drastically, without the Quick Draw feat could I make my attacks then don my shield as a swift, then put it away at the start of next round before making my attacks again?
The general assumption is that if you're seriously asking a question like this, then the answer is no. If it sounds too cheesy, it usually is too cheesy.
Let's say I have Slashing Grace and Quick Draw, and I'm using a quickdraw shield. Could I take a free action to put away the shield, make my attacks with Slashing Grace active (because my hand is now free), and then free action don the shield again? Perhaps less drastically, without the Quick Draw feat could I make my attacks then don my shield as a swift, then put it away at the start of next round before making my attacks again?The general assumption is that if you're seriously asking a question like this, then the answer is no. If it sounds too cheesy, it usually is too cheesy.
Let the record show, I'm not asking because of this kind of cheesy edge case, I'm using this kind of cheesy edge case as an extreme example of what I'm talking about.
|
|
I'd call this an exploit of the turn system, like closing your eyes during your turn to avoid mirror image but then opening them again so you're not flatfooted during enemy turns. Everything is actually happening at once, and we have to use turns to make any sense of it, but it isn't like your character is making his attacks and then sitting around doing nothing while the enemies go. If you're not using your shield during your attacks, you don't have it during your opponent's attacks either.
Completely agree. That said, I'm unclear if the game designers are thinking we are supposed to be taking full advantage of the rules as written or if it is an oversight. Lots of things in this game are cheesy and the developers are expecting players to be doing them.
How is any this different from a character removing one hand from a 2 handed weapon to cast, then putting that hand back on the weapon to threaten AoOs?
How is any this different from a character removing one hand from a 2 handed weapon to cast, then putting that hand back on the weapon to threaten AoOs?
Let's say I have Slashing Grace and Quick Draw, and I'm using a quickdraw shield. Could I take a free action to put away the shield, make my attacks with Slashing Grace active (because my hand is now free), and then free action don the shield again? Perhaps less drastically, without the Quick Draw feat could I make my attacks then don my shield as a swift, then put it away at the start of next round before making my attacks again?With both a Quickdraw Shield and the Quick Draw feat, I would say you'd be able to do both as a free action, not as a swift. The Quickdraw Shield description is quite clear on that point. I think this is the correct mechanical effect, for the same reason that you can be wielding a two-handed weapon, cast a spell, then make an attack of opportunity with your weapon.
Where I would have issues is if you tried to claim that you could pull your shield back out and stow it again during your attacks. For instance, if someone readied an action to shoot an arrow at you when you attacked their ally, you wouldn't get the shield's AC bonus.
It isn't. That's been covered, as well as the "I'm going to don and stow my shield between every action because it's a free action, and the rules say I can" ridiculousness.
Not specifically calling you out, Java, but people in general seem intent on not reading the thread before they post.
I did (and do) read the thread. Just asking a question, which is really stating my opinion, and honestly wondering why one is widely accepted and the other generates debate.
But thank you for not calling me out specifically while generally critisizing those who engage in the behaviour you believe I just did.
How is any this different from a character removing one hand from a 2 handed weapon to cast, then putting that hand back on the weapon to threaten AoOs?
Mechanically it is the same thing.
Some people may not like it, but it is legal by RAW.