Does using the paladin mercy to remove fatigue remove the need for sleep?
Does using this ability remove the need for 8 hours sleep before recovering spells?
(Note I am not trying to get around the rule that you can only regain spells once per 24 hours)
Does using the paladin mercy to remove fatigue remove the need for sleep?
It removes the penalty for going without sleep. It would not remove the requirement of sleeping. In that regard, it should default to the curses, poisons, etc behavior. If you are still sleep-deprived after an hour, your fatigue returns because you didn't fix the source of the condition.
Does using this ability remove the need for 8 hours sleep before recovering spells? (Note I am not trying to get around the rule that you can only regain spells once per 24 hours)
No, because removing the fatigued condition and sleeping are not the same thing.
What you're most likely looking for is the Keep Watch spell (inquisitor, magus, paladin, ranger, sorcerer/wizard lists) from Knights of the Inner Sea. That allows you to be lightly active and aware while still getting the benefits from a full night's rest.
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Does using the paladin mercy to remove fatigue remove the need for sleep?
Does using this ability remove the need for 8 hours sleep before recovering spells?
(Note I am not trying to get around the rule that you can only regain spells once per 24 hours)
So the need for sleep is loose in the rules. Arcane Casters need the 8 hours of "restful calm" but it doesn't need to be sleep (meditation works just fine). Although 8 hours is the assumed sleep time for humans and other creatures, it doesn't seem to state this anywhere in the rules, only that they require sleep as per their creature type/subtype.
Divine Casters don't require the 8 hours of rest at all. Instead, they must pray for 1 hour at a specific time of day to prepare their spells. If they miss this time, the lose out on the option to regain spells that day (they retain unused spells from the last time they prepared). So if this is about recovering spells for the paladin, it's pointless since you don't require rest to regain paladin spells.
Not sure regarding Psychic Casters, as it doesn't seem to be covered by the Psychic Magic section of Occult Adventures. As far as I can tell, they just have fresh spells every day, without regard to sleep.
Anyway, regarding the physical "need" for sleep, that's up to the GM. I can't find where it defines the need for sleep (other than stating you need it), so I think it's dependent on the GM on whether fatigue and sleep are related concepts.
Pathfinder has no physical requirement for sleep. If you can remove the fatigue each day, you can go without indefinitely.
Pathfinder has no physical requirement for sleep.
The SRD disagrees with you.
Humanoids breathe, eat, and sleep.
This very clearly constitutes a requirement. The effects thereof, I don't have a clear reference for, but there is certainly a requirement for humanoids (and some other types) to sleep.
If you can remove the fatigue each day, you can go without indefinitely.
Not using a paladin's mercy.
A mercy can remove a condition caused by a curse, disease, or poison without curing the affliction. Such conditions return after 1 hour unless the mercy actually removes the affliction that causes the condition.
Fatigue is a symptom of being sleep-deprived. If you're not getting the equivalent of what constitutes rest for your race, you're still sleep-deprived even though you're temporarily not fatigued anymore. If you used the fatigued mercy to remove it, that condition will come back in an hour without sleep.
There's an FAQ about what happens if you don't sleep.
And no, the requirement to regain spells is sleep. Removing the fatigue caused by lack of sleep is not the same as getting sleep. No sleep = no spells.
My Skull and Shackles druid uses lesser restoration to stay awake at all hours while the ship is at sea. As long as you can remove the fatigue permanently, you're fine to go without sleep. It may interfere with class abilities however.
Some degree of Restoration spell should work fine. My point was that you couldn't use a mercy to do it, because of the way the mercy ability is worded.
Ring of Sustenance
Yes, the Ring of Sustenance is a magic item that exists. I asssume that was the entire point of your post, since you didn't say anything about it.
Snark aside, said ring does not prevent you from needing sleep, it simply reduces the amount of sleep you need.
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And no, the requirement to regain spells is sleep. Removing the fatigue caused by lack of sleep is not the same as getting sleep. No sleep = no spells.
It does clarify, later in that paragraph, that you don't be asleep for every minute of that 8 hour perior. You just can't be taking actions or otherwise acting as if awake. It's described as "Restful Calm."
So, you could sleep for 1 minute and then spend 7 hours and 59 minutes in a loosely awake state of "Restful Calm" and still count as resting for the purposes of regainging arcane spells. And no, this isn't a loophole, since there's no real difference between sleeping and being in a state of "restful calm." As GM, I still treat a creature in a state of "restful calm" as being asleep for all mechanical purposes. And creatures that do not sleep, still need 8 hours of restful calm to prepare arcane spells.
And again, no rest = no ARCANE spells. Only arcane spells require rest.
A creature awake but in "restful calm" could still keep watch, much better than a sleeping character could.
The term "restful calm" makes me think of one being in a relaxed state, not moving much, and not doing much of anything either. Not even being so active as reading a book.
A character keeping watch would have to be moving around, looking for hostile creatures and other dangers, and otherwise not being "restful". If that were an option, then the aptly named Keep Watch spell would have absolutely no use.
A mercy can remove a condition caused by a curse, disease, or poison without curing the affliction. Such conditions return after 1 hour unless the mercy actually removes the affliction that causes the condition.I don't think not sleeping is a curse poison, or disease.
FTFY
I don't think those are the only items on the strict list of things that return if the underlying condition isn't taken care of, either. The part you quoted (strategically leaving out the important bit) is descriptive text. The mechanical effect (which you omitted) is the important part.
The actual cause (being sleep-deprived) is not addressed by a paladin's mercy, only the fatigued condition it causes. You haven't fixed being sleep-deprived, so after an hour, you would be fatigued again.
Again, other ways of removing fatigue (such as the previously mentioned Restoration spells) would be a more lasting remedy. A paladin's mercy would not be, because you're doing nothing about what's causing you to be fatigued in the first place.
Obviously at your table you're free to play it however you want. The way the rules for that specific ability are written, however, this is how it would work.
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A slightly different angle I have wondered about.
Page 59, Ultimate Combat - Martial Artist monk archetype
Extreme Endurance (Ex): At 5th level, a martial artist gains immunity to fatigue. At 10th level, he also gains immunity to exhaustion.So, would a 5th level martial artist monk be able to go without sleep for a night without becoming fatigued? And would a 10th level martial artist monk be able stay awake 24/7 for the rest of his or her life without penalty?
Even if you are immune to the side effects of having no sleep, at a certain point, you should just die (or go insane) due to a lack of sleep. GM's call. But I'll note that a Humanoid Monk does require sleep as per their creature type. The GM could also just have you go to sleep at random times, likely to your inconvience.
Fatigue is your body telling you that you need to sleep. Not being told (due to immunity) doesn't mean you don't need sleep, it just means that you lose your warning system....
I think it comes down to a difference of expectations. The "need sleep" crowd sees sleep as a part of the human condition, so of course nothing you do can dodge it.
The "no sleep" crowd says that at some level you transcend mere human limitations. Hercules could probably fight for 100 nights straight.
I think it comes down to a difference of expectations. The "need sleep" crowd sees sleep as a part of the human condition, so of course nothing you do can dodge it.
The "no sleep" crowd says that at some level you transcend mere human limitations. Hercules could probably fight for 100 nights straight.
Hercules wasn't purely human, but a half-celestial. So he doesn't count. ;)
I don't think it has been mentioned yet, but there is an example of an NPC from Rise of the Runelords who is specifically mentioned as using lesser restoration to avoid the consequences of sleeping.
Gogmurt, the goblin druid outside of Thistletop, has the following written outside of his statblock: "He hasn’t been sleeping lately, and has taken to casting lesser restoration daily to fight off fatigue."
This seems to imply that in Pathfinder you can greatly reduce or eliminate the need to sleep.
If you can ignore breathing and eating with special skills/abilities, why couldn't you ignore sleeping with special skills/abilities?
I don't think it has been mentioned yet, but there is an example of an NPC from Rise of the Runelords who is specifically mentioned as using lesser restoration to avoid the consequences of sleeping.
** spoiler omitted **
This seems to imply that in Pathfinder you can greatly reduce or eliminate the need to sleep.
True, but this doesn't imply that it's healthy to do so. In fact, given the statement that it's a recent development, that seems to imply that it absolutely isn't. Otherwise, such a character could have been doing so for a long time if there were no negative side effects. That, of course, is up to the GM, but even non-spellcasters shouldn't be able to ignore sleep for no reason.
If you can ignore breathing and eating with special skills/abilities, why couldn't you ignore sleeping with special skills/abilities?
You can. Most abilities, like the Restoration spells, don't care about that and simply remove the fatigued condition. Other abilities, like Keep Watch, allow you to get the benefits of sleep without having to be unconscious. A paladin's fatigued mercy only fixes the condition for an hour if it was caused by something that's still affecting you, so that specific ability is not going to cut it.
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If you can ignore breathing and eating with special skills/abilities, why couldn't you ignore sleeping with special skills/abilities?
No disagreements. Topic is if ignoring fatigue means the same thing as ignoring the need for sleep. I'm under the impression the two are different.
Heart ofThe Fields is a human racial trait option. It allows ignoring an effect that would cause fatigue once per day. I strongly doubt the intention is humans that never sleep.