I just took a look at the Burning Arc spell and it occured to me that if there's only one target, the additional acs might be able to target objects.
Does that work?
Could you target a wizard, and also target their spellbook and spell component pouch? (Making new saves for each?)
Could you arc from a person to unattended objects?
You cannot target attended objects like that. If his book is sitting on a nearby table or something, sure.
Yes, you can target attended items, though it is often suboptimal, as energy attacks do half damage to objects, and once the one saved for one of the attacks, he maybe considered to have saved vs. all of them. Debateable.
toastedamphibian wrote: You cannot target attended objects like that. If his book is sitting on a nearby table or something, sure. Rules quote please?
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I believe Zenith is correct. Only one additional thought, it is also potentially suboptimal not only as Zenith indicated but as well because each item gets not only a save but it uses its holder/possessor/wielder's save or its own which ever is best.
One additional piece of evidence that you can target the wizard and his possessions would be the wording in the spell Chain Lightning which has similar target line text and this in the body of the description:
CRB wrote: ... Unlike lightning bolt, chain lightning strikes one object or creature initially, then arcs to other targets. ... You also have to be able to see to target his spell book(s) and most wizards would be unlikely to have them out where visible (except when memorizing, of course), but tucked away securely. Spell component pouch not so much, but I would, considering how "cheap" such an item is, probably carry a backup or two which would also be tucked away securely. Still that might slow them down or limit their choice of spells until they could get the replacement out of their backpack or wherever.
Edit: I would also be more comfortable if it said somewhere that when not specified that you could in fact target both objects and creatures with a spell. Usually the text plus body makes it clear but in this case it isn't so clear. I think some of the confusion (or lack of clarity) stems from the fact that without optional/house or specific bestiary rules you cannot target specific portions of a creature i.e. target the head, hand and a foot, for example, with separate attacks, at least within the Core Rules.
The chain lightning quote could as easily be referring to unattended objects. I'm as yet unconvinced of a non-house method for deciding which spells can target attended objects and which cannot.
blahpers wrote: The chain lightning quote could as easily be referring to unattended objects. I'm as yet unconvinced of a non-house method for deciding which spells can target attended objects and which cannot. Indeed, the situation is vague. You can clearly target someones possessions. Grease is an explicit example of this. Problem, of course, is Grease also spells it out in its body text and the spell only targets an object or area, not creatures. Magic Missile is the reverse clearly spelling out you can only target creatures and not objects. But perhaps that is exactly why you can't target an attended object because it doesn't explicitly say you can in the individual spell description. While I am unsure and believe Zenith correct I am also unsure I would do so in my own campaign as a GM and allow it, my guts tell me it should be a no no.
Doomed Hero wrote: I just took a look at the Burning Arc spell and it occured to me that if there's only one target, the additional acs might be able to target objects.
Does that work?
Could you target a wizard, and also target their spellbook and spell component pouch? (Making new saves for each?)
Could you arc from a person to unattended objects?
The targeting descriptor states the following:
Quote: Target or Targets: Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself.. So, you must check the spell to see what kinds of targets it allows.
The aiming descriptor only states "one primary target plus one additional target/3 levels", so based on that alone, you should be able to target objects; but, the spell description states "... burning a number of enemies nearby". That sentence would limit the target type to something you can directly consider an enemy.
I'd say that an inanimated book sitting on a table doesn't count as an enemy, so you should not be able to target that book or the wizard's component pouch (unless the pouch attacks you first).
Doomed Hero wrote: toastedamphibian wrote: You cannot target attended objects like that. If his book is sitting on a nearby table or something, sure. Rules quote please? Quote: When attempting to break an object, you have two choices: smash it with a weapon or break it with sheer strength. Quote: Attended (Held/Wielded etc.) Items: Unless the descriptive text for a spell (or attack) specifies otherwise, all items carried or worn by a creature are assumed to survive a magical attack. If a creature rolls a natural 1 on its saving throw against the effect, however, an exposed item is harmed (if the attack can harm objects). Refer to Table: Items Affected by Magical Attacks to determine order in which items are affected. Determine which four objects carried or worn by the creature are most likely to be affected and roll randomly among them. The randomly determined item must make a saving throw against the attack form and take whatever damage the attack dealt. If the selected item is not carried or worn and is not magical, it does not get a saving throw. It simply is dealt the appropriate damage.
Toastedamphibion, your second quote leaves out the context of that rule. That is taken from the section regarding breaking or bursting objects with strength instead of damage.
What I'm asking about is using energy damage to harm an object. I believe the relevant rule is above the section you posted. Energy attacks usually do half damage before hardness, but some kinds of energy deals full damage to some kinds of material, like fire damaging cloth, or sonic damaging crystal.
My question was mostly about whether an object could be targeted at all, which seems to have been answered.
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