-2 to attacks and AC when charging?


General Discussion

Shadow Lodge

This bit really surprised me.

Page 248: "Attacking on a Charge: After moving, you can make a single melee attack. You take a –2 penalty to the attack roll and a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn. You can’t move any farther after the attack. Some classes, including solarian and soldier, grant abilities that modify attacks made on charges."

Is it just that they want charges to only really be great for soldiers and solarians? Is it just that double moving and attacking is more valuable now that full attacks are limited to only two attacks?


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

If you want to move more than your speed (up to twice your speed) before making a melee attack, a charge is the way to do it. But I can see that I may need to warn players off from charging when they can get better results by making a single move and then attacking.


It is certainly the latter.

It is also more reasonable. Paint a mark on a treestump.
Now stand next to the stump and swing a baseball bat at the mark.
Now, try to run full tilt at the stump and swing the bat at the mark.

Which works out better?


Voss wrote:

It is certainly the latter.

It is also more reasonable. Paint a mark on a treestump.
Now stand next to the stump and swing a baseball bat at the mark.
Now, try to run full tilt at the stump and swing the bat at the mark.

Which works out better?

The latter. But in that case, there should at least be a minor damage increase. You're going faster, so you apply more force to the target of you do land the hit.


^That's going to be highly dependent upon height of the stump and the mark. Most stumps are going to be so low as to make this really hard to do on a charge. But if you find a stump that is about your height (or even slightly lower or higher), hitting a mark up near the top might not be so hard.


Voss wrote:

It is certainly the latter.

It is also more reasonable. Paint a mark on a treestump.
Now stand next to the stump and swing a baseball bat at the mark.
Now, try to run full tilt at the stump and swing the bat at the mark.

Which works out better?

Except you are not running full tilt...that would be 4 x your movement (assuming they did not change that...

The plus two makes sense to hit due to the increase velocity of the swing...you are just trying to hit the stump after all...

It is probably just a typo...

Shadow Lodge

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John Kretzer wrote:
It is probably just a typo...

Context elsewhere in the book confirms it is not. Soldier even gets an ability which lets them negate the "charge penalties" along with some other bonuses.

In Starfinder, charging is inaccurate.


Penalties for charging seem reasonable to me. You would have to be an idiot to charge someone with a gun anyway.


The Morphling wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:
It is probably just a typo...

Context elsewhere in the book confirms it is not. Soldier even gets an ability which lets them negate the "charge penalties" along with some other bonuses.

In Starfinder, charging is inaccurate.

They could be talking about the "charge penalties" to AC while charging. I haven't read the book but I would think they would keep the rule consistent.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Speaker for the Dead wrote:
The Morphling wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:
It is probably just a typo...

Context elsewhere in the book confirms it is not. Soldier even gets an ability which lets them negate the "charge penalties" along with some other bonuses.

In Starfinder, charging is inaccurate.

They could be talking about the "charge penalties" to AC while charging. I haven't read the book but I would think they would keep the rule consistent.

Nah, this was talked about long before the book came out. It's intended.


Makes sense to me. Draw a target on a tree and try hitting it with a bayonet standing next to the tree. Then try charging at the tree. You're going to hit the tree most of the time, but you'll almost never be on target.

Grand Lodge

This was surprising to me too initially, but it is intended. The main value of a charge is to allow you to double move and attack in Starfinder.

Hmm


In one of the various Podcasts the devs were on this came up. The -2 to hit is intended.

Part of it could be because mobility in general is higher - you can have jump jets and flight packs easily by 5th level (according to devs), so that may have influenced it. You don't need to charge to move around more - this last is speculation.


You don't need to be in melee range as much - ranged weapons are used more.


IonutRO wrote:
Makes sense to me. Draw a target on a tree and try hitting it with a bayonet standing next to the tree. Then try charging at the tree. You're going to hit the tree most of the time, but you'll almost never be on target.

Isn't there sports like tent pegging based on this? I've seen men hit a ping-pong ball with a sword whilst mounted on a galloping horse. Of course this might just mean charging is less of an issue if trained and practiced hence the Soldier and Solarion.

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