I'm making a Whirling Dervish Swashbuckler and I would like some suggestions on her character traits and feats. The character is an elf, though I can always take the Adopted trait if need be.
Swashbucklers get the benefits of Weapon Finesse at level one and the Whirling Dervish archetype gets the benefit of the Dervish Dance feat at level 4. Swashbucklers also get bonus feats every 4 levels, which must be Combat Feats, and can use the Cha mod instead of Int mod to qualify for those feats. Swashbuckler levels are treated as Fighter levels for Combat Feats as well.
This is my character sheet: https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1287600
A whirling dervish of Sarenrae probably isn't an atheist. Just saying.
Because it counts to both attack and your parry, weapon focus (scimitar) is a useful feat for you. You could get weapon spec. (scimitar) with the 4th level bonus feat if you do. Extra panache is a useful feat for combat, especially if you later go for combat reflexes so you can parry more than once a round, or for one of the ___ deed feats like dueling cape deed.
Or you could go for something completely different like taking a trait to make stealth a class skill, skill focus (stealth) and feats which depend on that like owl style and/or hellcat stealth. Where do you want to take her later on?
Sarenrae? What's that?
The Weapon Focus and Specialization sounds like a good idea. And I could definitely use more Panache Points.
I don't think I want to use Stealth for her. She's too outgoing and flashy to want to sneak around and hide.
In Qadira and throughout the Padishah Empire, Sarenrae’s worshipers praise the Dawnflower through dance. Sarenrae is a deity.
If you see her as flashy you might want to train either bluff or intimidate as a skill. You might possibly take feats later which use one of those, or just leave it as a social skill, but being without either doesn't suit flashy IMO.
Lunge BTW is another feat which fits a swashbuckler well.
Ah, ok. The site I usually go to doesn't have that part in the archetype description.
Intimidate would probably be more useful in more situations than Bluff would be.
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My favorite idea for a Swashbuckler post Adventurer's Armory 2 is to use the "Versatile Design" to move your weapon of choice to the Close group so you can use it with Outslug Style. It's feat intensive, but between Lunge, Blue Swordmaster's Flair, and the ability to 10' step, you can effectively threaten an impressive radius.
The thing that always bothered me about the swashbuckler is that conceptually you're supposed to be moving around a lot, but the mechanics of the class encourage you to stand in one place and full attack.
Since a Swashbuckler relies on precision based damage to stay inline with the other melee classes. I recommend picking up the Shadow Strike feat. It lets you keep your precision damage against things with concealment, but not total concealment. Also, I'm a big fan of the Step-Up feat chain.
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I think you want to max you Intimidate skill. The Menacing Swordplay deed (3rd lvl) allows you to make an Intimidate check as a swift action when you score a hit with your scimitar.
Depending on the campaign, you could think about taking the Blade of Mercy religion trait. A trait to boost your weak fort or will save is also worth considering.
Intimidate would probably be more useful in more situations than Bluff would be.
If you like that route, consider picking up the Disarming Threat Deed. It lets you bully people with no repercussions.
Remember that the Whirling Dervish can regain panache for making a foe surrender. Might want some diplomacy on that build!
In your notes, you may want to amend the Panache section to remind yourself that dropping an opponent below zero only regains you panache if they are an evil outsider or undead.
Since you still get Panache back from critical hits, you may want to look at Anatomist. It gives a bonus to confirm critical hits.
I generally use traits to gain a class skill. Secret of the Sphinx (Scarab Sages faction of Pathfinder Society) would allow you to make any knowledge a class skill for you. Since you put a point into Knowledge (Dungeoneering), I thought you might want to consider it. There are other traits that could also get you that skill.
When equipping your swashbuckler, don't forget to give them a morningstar. Since it is both Blunt and Piercing, you can use your swashbuckler abilities with it. Convenient when you hit a monster with DR/Blunt such as a skeleton.
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I am a huge fan of outslug style on a swashbuckler. It gives them huge battlefield control when paired with a blue scarf swordmasters flair, and there are several solid weapons in the close group to use it with. The cestus you can use without a feat or a dip, but the waveblade is ideal. It has an 18-20 crit range, is in the close weapon group, and has the monk special weapon quality. There aome great multiclassing opportunities with brawler or monk that would really make this shine.
I will take a look at all of those and see what I like.
Combat reflexes is a must: it lets you parry things with multiple attacks. Anything worth being worried about has multiple attacks
Fencer is an amazing trait on a swashbuckler
Ooh, I wish I had known about Fencer when I was making my hunter! She's the one I'm currently playing with, and her build is geared towards flanking and AoOs with her boar companion. She has Precise Strike, Outflank, Dervish Dance, and Pack Flanking. And I plan to give her Broken Wing Gambit at level 5, Paired Opportunists at level 6, and Combat Reflexes at level 7. I'm still trying to figure out what feats she should get at level 9.
I can give you a hint. Take the blade of mercy trait, make your scimitar non-lethal. Take the enforcer trait and buy a cruel weapon. Voily ... a whining dm.
I found the Blade of Mercy trait, but I don't see the Enforcer trait anywhere. Did you mean the feat?
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reactionary would probably be a good trait,as would be carefully hidden
not looking to derail but a little side question i've had for a while is is there any way for a non swashbuckler to get level to damage via Precise Strike?
Do you mean is there a way for any class to get it? Or are there other classes that do get it? Because the Daring Champion Cavalier gets precise strike, along with a few other deeds.
Blade of Mercy Trait Weapon deals nonlethal damage
Enforcer Feat Free intimidate when dealing nonlethal damage
Cruel weapon enchant hitting an enchanted enemy gives him the sickened condition.
I agree that Combat Reflexes is a very good feat for a swashbuckler.
When building my swashbuckler, one of the questions I had was when to take it. As DonKalleOne mentioned, you are limited in panache. In addition, you can only Reposte once a round because it requires an immediate action. I've found that I need to be somewhat choosy about when to use the Parry and Riposte.
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It's fairly boring, but don't forget Great Fortitude. A melee class with a low Fort save is bound to get itself torn appart, so you'll want to cover that glaring weakness.
Same goes for the Iron Will feat and the Indomitable Faith trait. Will save effects start out pretty bad and they only get worse.
It's fairly boring, but don't forget Great Fortitude. A melee class with a low Fort save is bound to get itself torn appart, so you'll want to cover that glaring weakness.
Same goes for the Iron Will feat and the Indomitable Faith trait. Will save effects start out pretty bad and they only get worse.
That was one of the problems with swashbuckler.
The other is that for all it's touted mobility, it doesn't have any.
The third is that there's not much in the class past level 5.
The first and third there solve themselves: dip into paladin if your story/character idea can take it.
Steadfast Personality will often be better than Iron Will for a Swashbuckler.
I am a huge fan of outslug style on a swashbuckler. It gives them huge battlefield control when paired with a blue scarf swordmasters flair, and there are several solid weapons in the close group to use it with. The cestus you can use without a feat or a dip, but the waveblade is ideal. It has an 18-20 crit range, is in the close weapon group, and has the monk special weapon quality. There aome great multiclassing opportunities with brawler or monk that would really make this shine.
Two waveblade or one in such a build?
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I am a huge fan of outslug style on a swashbuckler. It gives them huge battlefield control when paired with a blue scarf swordmasters flair, and there are several solid weapons in the close group to use it with. The cestus you can use without a feat or a dip, but the waveblade is ideal. It has an 18-20 crit range, is in the close weapon group, and has the monk special weapon quality. There aome great multiclassing opportunities with brawler or monk that would really make this shine.Two waveblade or one in such a build?
It depends on how many swashbuckler levels you take. Precise Strike prohibits a second weapon. That said, swashbuckler 5/brawler x or swashbuckler 5/brawler 1/fighter x would both offer enough extra damage to make the loss of precise strike worth losing the +5 damage from precise strike.
Outslug is a lot of feat investment, and the swift stance to enter the style is a problem for a swashbuckler. That swift action is a real choke point.
Outslug is a lot of feat investment, and the swift stance to enter the style is a problem for a swashbuckler. That swift action is a real choke point.
More of your stuff relies on immediate actions than swift ones though (charmed life, opportune riposte, dodging panache, etc.) So a swift action on the first round of combat mostly costs you the ability to use menacing swordplay, which is probably worth it for what Outslug Style gets you.
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Outslug is a lot of feat investment, and the swift stance to enter the style is a problem for a swashbuckler. That swift action is a real choke point.More of your stuff relies on immediate actions than swift ones though (charmed life, opportune riposte, dodging panache, etc.) So a swift action on the first round of combat mostly costs you the ability to use menacing swordplay, which is probably worth it for what Outslug Style gets you.
This. It rarely causes an issue, but there is always combat style mastery as an option, but it really only works if you dip master of many styles.
Outslug is a lot of feat investment, and the swift stance to enter the style is a problem for a swashbuckler. That swift action is a real choke point.More of your stuff relies on immediate actions than swift ones though (charmed life, opportune riposte, dodging panache, etc.) So a swift action on the first round of combat mostly costs you the ability to use menacing swordplay, which is probably worth it for what Outslug Style gets you.
Your swift action is your immediate action.
You can use a bit of swordsmans flair, blue scarf and get 5 extra feet of reach with the same action, which is almost as good as gaining 5 feet of mobility when stepping. Burning penache at the start of the fight is almost costless, as you're almost guaranteed to kill someone and or crit at least once.
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Outslug is a lot of feat investment, and the swift stance to enter the style is a problem for a swashbuckler. That swift action is a real choke point.More of your stuff relies on immediate actions than swift ones though (charmed life, opportune riposte, dodging panache, etc.) So a swift action on the first round of combat mostly costs you the ability to use menacing swordplay, which is probably worth it for what Outslug Style gets you.Your swift action is your immediate action.
You can use a bit of swordsmans flair, blue scarf and get 5 extra feet of reach with the same action, which is almost as good as gaining 5 feet of mobility when stepping. Burning penache at the start of the fight is almost costless, as you're almost guaranteed to kill someone and or crit at least once.
No, your immediate action is your swift action on the next turn. The blue scarf is an opportunity cost, but as I said, there is an option of using combat style master to begin combat in a style without using an action.
Man, I had no idea swashbucklers were this complicated to build. Good thing I have plenty of time to work on it.
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Man, I had no idea swashbucklers were this complicated to build. Good thing I have plenty of time to work on it.
They don't have to be that complicated, but like most classes, if you're trying to get the most you can out of the build, it takes a fair amount of system knowledge and a definite plan for what you want to do. You can do fine just sticking with swashbuckler and taking relatively mundane feats like great fortitude, power attack/piranha strike, and weapon focus/specialization. However, the class does have specific strengths and weaknesses, and either shoring up the weaknesses, or building upon their strengths will make the character much more powerful.
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That was one of the problems with swashbuckler.
The other is that for all it's touted mobility, it doesn't have any.
The third is that there's not much in the class past level 5.
The first and third there solve themselves: dip into paladin if your story/character idea can take it.
Honesty, in my (incredibly bias) opinion 5 levels is almost overselling it. One of its best abilities, Parry/Repose, is a first level ability. It's less about "dipping paladin to fix it" and more "dipping Swashie on a dex paladin." My PFS Swashbuckler is mostly an Unchained Barbarian.
There's one more build that I think I should mention. Dumping Cha and Int gives you points to work with. You want to focus mainly on Str and Con for raw damage and to fix your embarassing base Fort save. Use a 2handed weapon of choice (Greataxes are a personal favorite for this motif) and a spiked gauntlet. Attack with the 2handed and swap it to your off hand at the end of your turn.
Bam. You've got solid damage, good saves, and you get to punch swords out of the way. Without dex shenanigans, you have the spare feats to take Extra Panache a couple of times, which puts you ahead of the poor folks who used point buy for 14 Cha.
No, your immediate action is your swift action on the next turn. The blue scarf is an opportunity cost, but as I said, there is an option of using combat style master to begin combat in a style without using an action.
So thats 5? feats and a 13 int to get a 10 foot step instead of a 5 foot step and +1 hit and damage?
Thats one thing if you're theory crafting level 20 characters but that's a lot of bleh to level through the slow way
some people put lots of value in swashbuckler but i for one see very little that the class actually brings to the table over other classes
opportune parry and riposte is amazing with enough panache. Not only is it an extra attack (action economy is god) , but with an answering sword you almost don't need armor.
some people put lots of value in swashbuckler but i for one see very little that the class actually brings to the table over other classesopportune parry and riposte is amazing with enough panache. Not only is it an extra attack (action economy is god) , but with an answering sword you almost don't need armor.
Except when you roll that "1" since your riposte is an attack roll. If I'm fighting one on one, I prefer Dodging Panache to buff armor for my Swashbuckler though he has at this point a +5 CHA. Though if I'm fighting something that can still hit me at that point relatively easily then Parry and Riposte all the way!
So thats 5? feats and a 13 int to get a 10 foot step instead of a 5 foot step and +1 hit and damage?
Thats one thing if you're theory crafting level 20 characters but that's a lot of bleh to level through the slow way
Don't need 13 INT because:
she can use her Charisma score in place of Intelligence as a prerequisite for combat feats.
You're also getting lunge with no penalty from the Outslug chain, so if you can 10' step, find a 2nd swift to activate your swordsmaster's flair, you can full attack someone who is 20' away at the start of your turn, which is practically pounce for some martials.
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Man, I had no idea swashbucklers were this complicated to build. Good thing I have plenty of time to work on it.
i know how you feel.. making an Ifrit Aldori Swordlord.
the Character has already several Version behind her.Just for an Overview
Ifrit (Efreeti Magic, Fire in the Blood, Wildfire Heart, Mostly Human)
9/22(+2)/14/8/10/18(+2) (@ LvL 8,+2 are from Headband/Belt)
Traits: Memorable, Fiery Gaze
Swashbuckler (Rostland Brovado) 5/Unch Rogue (Rake)1/Aldori Swordlord 1/Unch Rogue (Rake)4
Feats:
(1) Weapon Focus , Weapon Finesse (Granted),
(3) Dazzling Dizzplay (Granted),Slashing Grace (Retrained @ LvL7),
(4) Step Up or Extra Panache.
(5) Extra Traits (Bigger than Life/Lessons of Chaldira),
(7) Deft Strike (Granted), Quick Draw(Granted), Shatter Defenses (From Retraining) +1 Extra Feat
(8) Rogue Talent , Evasion
(9) Eclectic
(10) Rogue Talent
(11) Feat , Unchained Skill (Intimidate)
This Build is a Face/Intimidate Build and when i reach 11 i have at least +35 on Intimidate and i can always take 10 on it.
If i beat the DC by 10 i make the paniked which i will always do (if they aren't immune to fear).
As you can see i still have "4" Feats left which i don't know what they will be
You're also getting lunge with no penalty from the Outslug chain, so if you can 10' step, find a 2nd swift to activate your swordsmaster's flair, you can full attack someone who is 20' away at the start of your turn, which is practically pounce for some martials.
What level are you getting that to come online?
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Get a Swordmaster's Flair. They're handy when you need some extra reach.
Except when you roll that "1" since your riposte is an attack roll.
and armor doesn't help you when they roll a 20.
What level are you getting that to come online?
You're also getting lunge with no penalty from the Outslug chain, so if you can 10' step, find a 2nd swift to activate your swordsmaster's flair, you can full attack someone who is 20' away at the start of your turn, which is practically pounce for some martials.
8 at the earliest, I think. Have the initial style feat sometime in your first 5 levels, take Lunge with your level 7 feat (a good choice anyway) take Outslug Weave with your Bonus Feat at 8 and trade out your bonus feat from level 4 for Outslug Sprint. Can be done at 9 if you need to squeeze another feat in there.
e.g. Human Inspired Blade Swashbuckler:
1) Weapon Focus (Rapier) (Bonus), Combat Expertise, Fencing Grace (human)
3) Weapon Adept (Versatile Design)
4) Anything (retrain this at 8) (Bonus)
5) Outslug Style
7) Lunge
8) Outslug Weave (Bonus), retrain your level 4 bonus feat to Outslug Sprint (Bonus).
Inspired Blade saves a feat with free weapon focus, the Whirling Dervish saves a feat with free Dervish Dance. Another 'buckler would need to wait until level 9.