If I am understanding Magus Spellstrikes correctly, they are treated the same as the free touch attack you get with Touch spells, only you deliver it with a free weapon attack. You can hold spells on your blade the same way you can hold spells on your hands and attack either later that round or in a subsequent round, as long as you don't discharge it.
Does this mean I, as a Magus, could hold a touch spell on my weapon in one round, and the next round deliver that free touch attack, as well as use spell combat as a full-round action with your base/iterative attacks plus another second offhand touch spell, once again delivered with a free weapon attack using Spellstrike?
Like this:
Turn 1: 1st shocking grasp held on weapon
Turn 2: Shift, 1st shocking grasp free touch attack, full-round attack -> Base attack, 2nd shocking grasp free touch attack
No, the free touch attack granted by casting the spell cannot be held for a later round. It is granted as part of casting the spell and if not used that round then it cannot be taken advantage of later.
To be clarified, you may then use a Full-round Attack or Standard action to deliver the touch through the weapon on subsequent rounds, as per the rules on Holding a Touch Spell. So you could,
Turn 1: Cast Shocking Grasp.
Turn Two: Start Spell Combat (DO NOT CAST SECOND SPELL YET), attack with the first spells effects, cast second spell, do the second attack, take remaining attacks from spells/iteratives
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To be clarified, you may then use a Full-round Attack or Standard action to deliver the touch through the weapon on subsequent rounds, as per the rules on Holding a Touch Spell. So you could,
Turn 1: Cast Shocking Grasp.
Turn Two: Start Spell Combat (DO NOT CAST SECOND SPELL YET), attack with the first spells effects, cast second spell, do the second attack, take remaining attacks from spells/iteratives
Hum, you can hold the charge so that it delivers on your first successful attack next round, but not cast the second spell in the middle of your iteratives.
Specifically, spell combat states:
A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.
However, you could:
Turn 1: Cast SG.Turn 2: Use spell combat, make all your iteratives (which hold the charge of SG) and then cast another SG and make the free attack from it.
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The new FAQ gimps Magi quite a bit, since it used to be common practice to cast a multi-touch spell such as Frostbite or Calcific Touch on one round and deliver it multiple times during full attacks on subsequent rounds.
Now you can only deliver it once a round, as a Standard Action, beyond the initial free touch.
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The new FAQ gimps Magi quite a bit, since it used to be common practice to cast a multi-touch spell such as Frostbite or Calcific Touch on one round and deliver it multiple times during full attacks on subsequent rounds.
Now you can only deliver it once a round, as a Standard Action, beyond the initial free touch.
Which FAQ? I only see a FAQ allowing exactly what you said used to be common practice on Ultimate Magic FAQ
yeah, using their spellstrike they can deliver it through their sword swings.
Only if they are wanting to deliver it as a touch attack will it use a standard action.
The new FAQ gimps Magi quite a bit, since it used to be common practice to cast a multi-touch spell such as Frostbite or Calcific Touch on one round and deliver it multiple times during full attacks on subsequent rounds.
Now you can only deliver it once a round, as a Standard Action, beyond the initial free touch.
This FAQ? A magi using spellstrike is not making touch attacks, he is rolling to hit normal AC.
The FAQ no more applies to a magus using spellstrike than if would apply to a caster attacking with natural weapons or unarmed strikes while carrying multiple charges. In both cases, each successful hit discharges a charge.
*Baring usage of an Arcana that modifies his normal attacks.
*Calcific Touch does not use charges. It delivers the effect 1/round until the duration expires, regardless of how many times the caster strikes an opponent.
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Huh. Those two FAQs seem to be in direct opposition.
I was initially referring to the newer one, which was specifically created to address the "multiple touches per round" that people were combining with Natural Attacks, Monstrous Physique and spells like Frostbite.
Spellstrike, which just converts that touch attack to a weapon attack, would similarly be affected. But I suppose if you go with [Specific > General] then the two FAQs can work side-by-side.
Thanks for pointing that out.
No, the free touch attack granted by casting the spell cannot be held for a later round. It is granted as part of casting the spell and if not used that round then it cannot be taken advantage of later.To be clarified, you may then use a Full-round Attack or Standard action to deliver the touch through the weapon on subsequent rounds, as per the rules on Holding a Touch Spell. So you could,
Turn 1: Cast Shocking Grasp.
Turn Two: Start Spell Combat (DO NOT CAST SECOND SPELL YET), attack with the first spells effects, cast second spell, do the second attack, take remaining attacks from spells/iteratives
So from this it sounds like I'd be able to do the sequence that I listed before, so I could hold S.G. on the blade, next round start spell combat delivering the free spellstrike attack first before any other attack, and then do base attack/iterative with a second shocking grasp, which once again can be delivered with spellstrike? So two total spellstrikes, all at the -2 from spell combat but with only the second one actually being used by spellcombat that round.
There is no opposition at all specifically because of the exception. It only applies to a magus.
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So from this it sounds like I'd be able to do the sequence that I listed before, so I could hold S.G. on the blade, next round start spell combat delivering the free touch attack first before any other attack, and then to base attack/iterative with a second shocking grasp, which once again can be delivered with spellstrike? So two total spellstrikes, all at the -2 from spell combat but with only the second one actually being used by spellcombat that round.
No. You only get the "free" touch attack the round you cast your spell. If you do not use it the round it is cast, it is lost.
yes the sequence is that you're holding the charge, and that any time you strike with your sword while holding the charge the spell will go off too.
So at lv2 you can do this.
r1 shocking grasp
r1 spell combat with my attack first
attack hits, discharges held shocking grasp via spellstrike.
cast spell and attack with sword via spellstrike instead of touching.
What you are missing is the order of operations. Round 1, cast SG #1, hold (for whatever reason). Round 2, declare spell combat, attack at -2 (plus your iteratives) which may or may not deliver your SG #1, THEN cast SG #2 and use its "free" attack, also at -2. Both are technically "being used by spellcombat (sic) that round," however.
Note that if you don't hit with SG #1, casting SG #2 will discharge the first and you'll only wind up with 1 SG charge to deliver.
So from this it sounds like I'd be able to do the sequence that I listed before, so I could hold S.G. on the blade, next round start spell combat delivering the free spellstrike attack first before any other attack, and then do base attack/iterative with a second shocking grasp, which once again can be delivered with spellstrike? So two total spellstrikes, all at the -2 from spell combat but with only the second one actually being used by spellcombat that round.No, the free touch attack granted by casting the spell cannot be held for a later round. It is granted as part of casting the spell and if not used that round then it cannot be taken advantage of later.To be clarified, you may then use a Full-round Attack or Standard action to deliver the touch through the weapon on subsequent rounds, as per the rules on Holding a Touch Spell. So you could,
Turn 1: Cast Shocking Grasp.
Turn Two: Start Spell Combat (DO NOT CAST SECOND SPELL YET), attack with the first spells effects, cast second spell, do the second attack, take remaining attacks from spells/iteratives
No once again. You do not get a free attack on the second turn, only on the turn you cast the spell. I should have been clearer when I said attack with first spell effects by saying "Use your first attack of the Full-Round Attack" instead.
To be clarified, you may then use a Full-round Attack or Standard action to deliver the touch through the weapon on subsequent rounds, as per the rules on Holding a Touch Spell. So you could,
Turn 1: Cast Shocking Grasp.
Turn Two: Start Spell Combat (DO NOT CAST SECOND SPELL YET), attack with the first spells effects, cast second spell, do the second attack, take remaining attacks from spells/iterativesHum, you can hold the charge so that it delivers on your first successful attack next round, but not cast the second spell in the middle of your iteratives.
Specifically, spell combat states:
A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.However, you could:
Turn 1: Cast SG.
Turn 2: Use spell combat, make all your iteratives (which hold the charge of SG) and then cast another SG and make the free attack from it.
You are 100% correct and that is my bad! Needs to go after the iteratives! (This is why you shouldn't post after 3 AM!)
Huh. Those two FAQs seem to be in direct opposition.
I was initially referring to the newer one, which was specifically created to address the "multiple touches per round" that people were combining with Natural Attacks, Monstrous Physique and spells like Frostbite.
That isn't even close to the reason why that FAQ was written. The Design Team didn't make any changes to the rules for delivering charges through Natural Attacks, so you can still deliver multiple charges in one round through Natural Attacks. That FAQ only applies when making Touch Attacks.
Spellstrike, which just converts that touch attack to a weapon attack, would similarly be affected. But I suppose if you go with [Specific > General] then the two FAQs can work side-by-side.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Similarly the ability to deliver multiple charges in a round by using Spellstrike is unaffected by the FAQ.
You are 100% correct and that is my bad! Needs to go after the iteratives! (This is why you shouldn't post after 3 AM!)To be clarified, you may then use a Full-round Attack or Standard action to deliver the touch through the weapon on subsequent rounds, as per the rules on Holding a Touch Spell. So you could,
Turn 1: Cast Shocking Grasp.
Turn Two: Start Spell Combat (DO NOT CAST SECOND SPELL YET), attack with the first spells effects, cast second spell, do the second attack, take remaining attacks from spells/iterativesHum, you can hold the charge so that it delivers on your first successful attack next round, but not cast the second spell in the middle of your iteratives.
Specifically, spell combat states:
A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.However, you could:
Turn 1: Cast SG.
Turn 2: Use spell combat, make all your iteratives (which hold the charge of SG) and then cast another SG and make the free attack from it.
Cool, that sounds definitive. Thanks all.