Are Items People Too? Intelligent Items As Constructs


Rules Questions


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What is an intelligent item? It might seem obvious at first; it's just a permanent magic item with a few extra features and some personality. It's a trusty talking sword, or an evil ring with a will of its own, or a hungry Bag of Holding. But intelligent items are actually underwritten in a few important ways, a problem Pathfinder inherited from its predecessors years ago, and these gaps in the rules lead to serious questions about the complete function and nature of intelligent items.

Because they possess ability scores, intelligent items aren't just objects, they're creatures, and are treated as constructs... but for what purpose? Ordinary items already have Hit Points and Hardness. But if intelligent items are creatures, do they gain racial Hit Dice, a Base Attack Bonus, skill points? Do they gain any construct traits?

Intelligent items are also said to think and feel as characters do, and should be treated as NPCs. They aren't mindless creatures; unlike most constructs, they have an Intelligence score. Intelligent constructs, like any creature with a mind, can take feats and even class levels. But what about intelligent items? They are creatures with a mind, after all. Could an intelligent item also be a sorcerer?

Sorcery or not, intelligent items can have "powers": special spell-like abilities that only the item can use, as a standard action. A typical unintelligent permanent magic item may also have abilities that only its wielder can activate, usually as a standard action, and that do not provoke attacks of opportunity. But a creature using a spell-like ability does provoke attacks of opportunity. So, when an intelligent item uses a power, should that be treated as a creature using a spell-like ability, or as a magic item simply activating itself? When concentrating on a power, what conditions, if any, prompt a Concentration check? For example, does an intelligent sword have to make a Concentration check for "violent movement" every time its wielder swings and attacks with it?

Knowing in what regards an intelligent item is a creature, a construct, or just a magic item, is key to understanding how they are meant to operate. Intelligent items can serve as powerful companions or enemies in your game, and ambiguity can slow down your game, cause disagreements, and lead to further misunderstandings. Removing that ambiguity could save a lot of time and trouble.


Not seeing Rules Question here.

The difference between an intelligent item and a construct is the lack of Strength and Dexterity. A lack of Strength isn't a dealbreaker for a creature, since that's a feature of incorporeal creatures, but a creature with 0 Dexterity results in a creature being immobile. There's nothing discussing a creature without a Dexterity score, and there's very few creatures without this statistic (Clockwork Brain Gear, Screaming Skull, both 3pp).

That's not to say you can't stat up an intelligent item. It's got languages, an "attack" in terms of its Ego check, saving throws as a magic item, hit points in terms of item hardness, and so forth. But it's still not a construct, it's a magic item. It doesn't count as a creature for the purpose of spells such as Teleport, it doesn't gain hit dice, it can't gain creature templates or class levels.


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Ultimate Equipment wrote:
Magically imbued with sentience, these items think and feel the same way characters do and warrant being treated like NPCs... Intelligent items can actually be considered creatures because they have Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores and should be treated as constructs.

As you can see, intelligent items are indeed considered creatures, and are treated as constructs. This is true in Pathfinder, and was a precedent set at least as far back as 3rd Edition D&D with nearly identical statements. However, to my knowledge, these statements have never been elaborated on, even though they carry a series of nontrivial mechanical connotations.

I asked many questions about the rules in my first post, and I thought that would be fairly obvious. I attempted to frame my many questions in almost a short essay format, rather than just a series of bullet points, so as to hopefully stoke the curiosity of others and promote discussion. But I will present those questions more clearly here, for everyone's convenience, and to hopefully avoid further confusion.

  • What does an intelligent item gain from being a creature?
  • What does an intelligent item gain from being a construct?
  • Intelligent creatures can take feats and class levels. Can intelligent items take feats or class levels?
  • Are intelligent item powers treated as a creature's spell-like abilities (and therefore provoke attacks of opportunity), or as a magic item's abilities simply activating automatically (and therefore do not provoke attacks of opportunity)?
  • When concentrating on a power, what conditions, if any, prompt a Concentration check from an intelligent item?


Any questions or comments related to intelligent items? Any potential answers to the questions I posed?


Owen Wilson in a Ninja Outfit wrote:


  • What does an intelligent item gain from being a creature?

    It has an opinion, sometimes can even speak it, and might try to resist the will of its owner. Other than that, nothing.

  • What does an intelligent item gain from being a construct?

    Nothing - unless you count hardness.

  • Intelligent creatures can take feats and class levels. Can intelligent items take feats or class levels?

    No. Like simulacrums, they are limited to what they are made to do. At least they have an edge on simulacrums with being able to be repaired with magic.

  • Are intelligent item powers treated as a creature's spell-like abilities (and therefore provoke attacks of opportunity), or as a magic item's abilities simply activating automatically (and therefore do not provoke attacks of opportunity)?

    Magic item functions when ordered/wielded by the master of the blade, spell like when the blade uses it on their own.

  • When concentrating on a power, what conditions, if any, prompt a Concentration check from an intelligent item?

Only in circumstances where an effect on INT and/or WIS is affecting the item and it is not being wielded. Otherwise, no.

See above. This, by the way is a GM's take on a GM's world. I think it is pretty reasonable, but I am in NO WAY saying it is RAW in and of itself.

Let the disagreements begin.


Dot.


2bz2p wrote:
Owen Wilson in a Ninja Outfit wrote:


  • What does an intelligent item gain from being a creature?

    It has an opinion, sometimes can even speak it, and might try to resist the will of its owner. Other than that, nothing.

  • What does an intelligent item gain from being a construct?

    Nothing - unless you count hardness.

  • Intelligent creatures can take feats and class levels. Can intelligent items take feats or class levels?

    No. Like simulacrums, they are limited to what they are made to do. At least they have an edge on simulacrums with being able to be repaired with magic.

  • Are intelligent item powers treated as a creature's spell-like abilities (and therefore provoke attacks of opportunity), or as a magic item's abilities simply activating automatically (and therefore do not provoke attacks of opportunity)?

    Magic item functions when ordered/wielded by the master of the blade, spell like when the blade uses it on their own.

  • When concentrating on a power, what conditions, if any, prompt a Concentration check from an intelligent item?

Only in circumstances where an effect on INT and/or WIS is affecting the item and it is not being wielded. Otherwise, no.

See above. This, by the way is a GM's take on a GM's world. I think it is pretty reasonable, but I am in NO WAY saying it is RAW in and of itself.

Let the disagreements begin.

I agree with this.

If you want Intelligent Magic Items to be able to do what you want, try casting Awaken Construct on it.


Intelligent items are items, not creatures. Even animated objects go from being objects to creatures despite having hardness once they are animated.

I think they should have been considered to be constructs, but if they were creatures they would have a complete stat block like every other creature, but they have their own rules for how things such as saves are given to them.


From an in game(RP) point of view they can probably pass as magic items, just as some creatures who are a lot more powerful than others can pass for a deity, but that creature is still not a deity.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

I treat intelligent items as creatures. The benefit is that they are valid targets for some spells, especially if they are capable of making independent attacks.


2bz2p wrote:

See above. This, by the way is a GM's take on a GM's world. I think it is pretty reasonable, but I am in NO WAY saying it is RAW in and of itself.

Let the disagreements begin.

Thank you for providing that caveat. I think it's important in this discussion to distinguish between the RAW, the possible RAI, and the rules-as-I-would-like-them-to-be, or the house rules. As long as that distinction is made, I think talking about it will be smooth sailing.

In this case, I think that's a perfectly reasonable way to run intelligent items in your game. It keeps the potential power in check, and keeps things relatively simple as well.

Meanwhile, another game might have players upgrading intelligent items as one can upgrade any construct. It'd be a whole other way of doing it.


Personally I draw the line at being automotive. Once items start moving around at their own volition, they're creatures.

Liberty's Edge

I've played around with this ambiguity in the past... combining construct, intelligent item, and/or creature traits in a single object.

Most notably, a 'big bad' I had was a legendary intelligent sword named Oathbreaker which could animate other objects (pretending to be 'wielded' by a statue it had animated was a favorite trick), fly/attack on its own (with the BAB and feats of a high level fighter), initiate personality conflicts by impaling people, etc.


CBDunkerson wrote:

I've played around with this ambiguity in the past... combining construct, intelligent item, and/or creature traits in a single object.

Most notably, a 'big bad' I had was a legendary intelligent sword named Oathbreaker which could animate other objects (pretending to be 'wielded' by a statue it had animated was a favorite trick), fly/attack on its own (with the BAB and feats of a high level fighter), initiate personality conflicts by impaling people, etc.

That's very cool! Intelligent items as constructs leads to some pretty interesting implications. Understandably, even if it's technically allowed by RAW, many GMs might not let players upgrade their own items like constructs, or give them feats and class levels, but some very cool things are possible. Our group had actually run a few sessions of an intelligent item campaign (we were evil items that would take over our wielders and throw them into danger), taking a couple creative liberties to make things workable, but if we had known at the time about intelligent items as constructs, things might've gotten a lot crazier.

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