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Personally, I think it is something that Paizo just never cared to answer. There have been multiple threads over the years about how to work extra limbs and attacks. It appears Paizo is silent in most of them.
As with so many things. I've certainly made it clear what my ruling on it would be. Feel free to explain how my example is used to disprove my claim however.
Personally, I think it is something that Paizo just never cared to answer. There have been multiple threads over the years about how to work extra limbs and attacks. It appears Paizo is silent in most of them.As with so many things. I've certainly made it clear what my ruling on it would be. Feel free to explain how my example is used to disprove my claim however.
I don't even disagree with your result. I think it is just more about balance as to why Paizo has never ruled definitively.
You stated that
They don't have to, because they illustrate the 'hands of effort' FAQ. No matter how many physical hands you have, you can only use iteratives with two of them, because ruleswise you only get the one set of off-hand iteratives.
Nothing about the "hands of effort" argument that I have ever seen has anything to do with iterative attacks. Usually. They are all about how many original off-hand attacks are available. A human has 2 arms, 2 legs + other striking surfaces but we all know they only have 1 off-hand attacks because of the "hand of effort" argument. Nothing limits the iterative attacks associated with those valid off-hand attacks.
But not more hands of effort, which is what off-hand iteratives requires. That's why you can't use a two handed weapon and still get an off-hand attack with armor spikes. It's the same with multi-armed creatures. Multi-weapon Fighting reduces the penalties they face, but it doesn't let them break the limit on iteratives.
You continue with "hands of effort" and tying it to iterative attacks. That has never been the case. Your example does not even have an iterative attack in it. It shows how the "hands of effort" applies to limiting the number of off-hands available.
In my opinion, the game can't have the "hands of effort" argument go both ways. If the off-hand exists, in this case it clearly does for each arm that the marilith has, than iterative attacks would exist for each arm as long as the proper feat is present. If the "hands of effort" argument applied here, the marilith could not have 4 of her "off hand" attacks to begin with. But since she clearly does gain those "off hand" attacks, we are past the point of applying the "hands of effort" limitations to the creature.
Now, this in no way clearly verifies that ITWF and the rest of the feat chain would apply to each and every off-hand attack. That is different than this part of the argument and one that I feel Paizo just refuses to answer.
I just don't think that "hands of effort" applies because the off-hand attacks are clearly there.
Interesting... Did Ylleshka take improved or greater two-weapon fighting?
Interesting... Did Ylleshka take improved or greater two-weapon fighting?
Nope, feats listed are "Bleeding Critical, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes,Critical Focus, Improved Critical (longsword), Mythic Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Mythic Toughness."
She makes 16 attacks; that was one of the more entertaining fights I thought.
Sounds good.
16 attacks without improved/greater two-weapon fighting is awesome.
Sounds good.
16 attacks without improved/greater two-weapon fighting is awesome.
twelve armed
Who needs ITWF/GTWF when you have 12 arms, lol.
Well... If it were ruled that multi-armed creatures could get additional attacks with each arm for ITWF and GTWF, I can imagine that some marilith, somewhere, would take it.
Even Ylleshka could have probably gotten 6 additional attacks out of the two feats, assuming that because she has two brains and two torsos that she could have applied the feats to one arm per torso. After all, I am told that she gets iteratives with her main arm on each torso.
[QUOTE="Pagess,Bringer of death
Because of the use of the word 'the' instead of 'each of the ...s' I'm inclined to think that the Marilith gets 2 extra attacks for ITWF and GTWF for one weapon
This
ITWF and GTWF each increase the total number of off-hand attacks by 1.
They do not act as multipliers.
Well move over balor. gunslinger marilith is now the higher CR demon in fact demigorgon had better watch his collective arses at that point.Hekatonkheries gunslinger for the win!
A Marilith could totally benefit from being able to dual wield shields, like those Aspis dudes from 1st edition. (or even quad wield shields...) Give the lady a greatsword, a breastplate and four shields (and the ability to stack shield bonuses, obviously) and let her use iterative attacks or vital strike with the greatsword, and she'd be hard to take down!
Adventurer's Armory 2 now has new shield rules that allow for the stacking of multiple shields. :D