Sling Flail (Combat)
You can use your loaded sling to effectively strike at nearby foes.
Prerequisites: Weapon Focus (sling), base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can make melee attacks using your loaded sling, using that weapon's normal statistics but treating it as a flail. Using a sling in this way does not expend mundane ammunition, but magical or masterwork ammunition loses its special properties after a single hit.
Special: Any feats you have that apply when you use a flail also apply when you use a loaded sling as a melee weapon.
All questions are ONLY about using the loaded sling in MELEE...
1. Does a cold iron bullet loaded in the sling bypass DR cold iron?
2. What if any damage bonus would apply from having a 14 strength and using 2 hands?
3. Would a PC not proficient with flails take a -4 to hit?
4. Would the sling have the disarm and trip features?
1. Yes. Cold iron is not masterwork or magical.
2. The same damage bonus as if you'd fired a sling bullet as a ranged weapon. Use the sling's normal statistics. "Your Strength modifier applies to damage rolls when you use a sling, just as it does for thrown weapons." Thus, you don't gain 1.5x strength bonus for two-handed wielding.
3. No. "You can make melee attacks using your loaded sling." This feat simply allows you to make melee attacks using your loaded sling. The weapon is still a sling, not a flail.
4. No. See answer 3.
What does "treating it as a flail" entail then?
It describes the physical effect of you attacking with your sling as a melee weapon. A flail is a heavy ball on the end of a chain. A sling is a heavy ball inside a cloth or leather strap. It doesn't mean you get the damage dice, special properties or melee bonuses associated with a flail. The sling is still a sling, Sling Flail means you simply get to use it as a melee weapon rather than a ranged weapon.
JDLPF wrote: 1. Yes. Cold iron is not masterwork or magical.
2. The same damage bonus as if you'd fired a sling bullet as a ranged weapon. Use the sling's normal statistics. "Your Strength modifier applies to damage rolls when you use a sling, just as it does for thrown weapons." Thus, you don't gain 1.5x strength bonus for two-handed wielding.
3. No. "You can make melee attacks using your loaded sling." This feat simply allows you to make melee attacks using your loaded sling. The weapon is still a sling, not a flail.
4. No. See answer 3.
any more opinions??
Meager Rolmug wrote:
any more opinions??
Yep: Don't bother, it is not worth a feat. Your better off taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Halfling Sling Staff )
(What? He asked for an opinion...)
toastedamphibian wrote: Meager Rolmug wrote:
any more opinions??
Yep: Don't bother, it is not worth a feat. Your better off taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Halfling Sling Staff )
(What? He asked for an opinion...) The sling staff doesn't allow bypassing various material DRs just by swapping bullets. Pretty big advantage as long as the PC can make the knowledge check to know the enemy's DR.
toastedamphibian wrote: Meager Rolmug wrote:
any more opinions??
Yep: Don't bother, it is not worth a feat. Your better off taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Halfling Sling Staff )
(What? He asked for an opinion...) Plus i am not sure the halfling alternative trait, warslinger, works on sling staffs.
Trait and potential to bypass DR.... yeah, still not worth it in my opinion.
Warslinger only works with normal slings per FAQ I believe. If a home game, ask your GM if warslinger of even Juggle Load work with a sling staff.
If not, cry, and take quickdraw instead.
It does a d6 damage instead of a d3 damage, and you can use it 2 handed. It is one extra feat for +3 average damage.
Or consider Close Quarters Thrower
Slings are in the thrown weapon group, so arguably it applies. If not, look for some other way to make ranged attacks without provoking. If your specializing in a sling, you probably will have other feats that only work with ranged attacks. If your NOT specializing in slings, then draw a backup weapon if your forced into melee. If you really want to spend a feat to make that more productive, get quickdraw. Or wear spiked gauntlets, cold iron on one hand, silver on the other, etc.
a 1d3 melee attack is really not a good use of your feat.
toastedamphibian wrote: Trait and potential to bypass DR.... yeah, still not worth it in my opinion.
Warslinger only works with normal slings per FAQ I believe. If a home game, ask your GM if warslinger of even Juggle Load work with a sling staff.
If not, cry, and take quickdraw instead.
It does a d6 damage instead of a d3 damage, and you can use it 2 handed. It is one extra feat for +3 average damage.
Or consider Close Quarters Thrower
Slings are in the thrown weapon group, so arguably it applies. If not, look for some other way to make ranged attacks without provoking. If your specializing in a sling, you probably will have other feats that only work with ranged attacks. If your NOT specializing in slings, then draw a backup weapon if your forced into melee. If you really want to spend a feat to make that more productive, get quickdraw. Or wear spiked gauntlets, cold iron on one hand, silver on the other, etc.
a 1d3 melee attack is really not a good use of your feat.
The PC will be built for melee mostly and only max out at a 14 str(16 with belt of physical perfection). And will by taking risky striker, not power attack. So two handed only adds 1 point of damage and the staff sling only does club damage(1d4) in melee, which is an average of 1/2 point. Being more likely to bypass DR should at least equal that in the long run. Is it poor compared to base damage of other melee weapons, yes. But There is a substantial advantage to being able to benefit in both melee and ranged combat fully with an investment in feats(weapon focus, weapon specialization) and gold(holy). That being said it is not an optimized damage dealing build. But he will hit often, bypass DR often and have enough static bonus damage to be worth while in ranged or melee.
If i build this PC it will be for its uniqueness NOT maximization, i am thinking 5 levels of fighter, 1 of Archaeologist, the rest maybe in rouge or slayer....not sure in exactly what order.
Since you asked for other opinions, here's mine. JDLPF pretty much summed it up. As for using two hands to get the 1.5x STR bonus, I'd have to say no. I don't know if there's anything official to it, but from the little bit of playing around I've done with slings, I'd say it becomes a light melee weapon, so it wouldn't get the bonus.
Also, having hit myself with a loaded sling a couple times when I was first trying to figure out how to use one, I can vouch for the fact that it hurts. Probably not as much as a real flail would, but it certainly does hurt.
I think I've come up with something workable, but i am going to delay taking the sling flail feat till level 4 and even than will probably only use it for ranged attacks or to bypass DR in melee. At level 7-8th i should have enough gold to make it holy. I will also have weapon focus, weapon specialization and weapon training(fighter feature) by then. Before that time I'll just use a great sword or lucern hammer.
There is also an advantage of being able to use a buckler with the sling without a "to hit" penalty in both melee and ranged, though the PC would not get the shield bonus to AC in a round he reloads. At that level i will be able to start enchanting the buckler making the bonus to AC worth while.
level 1: class=archaeologist(bard), feat=lingering performance
level 2: class=fighter, feat=risky striker
3: monk, lucky halfling, dodge
4: fighter, sling flail
5: crusader(cleric), Weapon Focus-sling and Extra Performance
6: class: All the rest fighter
7: Blundering Defense and Weapon Specialization
9: Crane Style and Uncanny Defense
11: Crane Wing and Crane Riposte
13: Defensive Combat Training and Greater Weapon Focus
Still not totally optimized for offense, notice the lack of power attack and point blank shot and precise shot. But his saves will be pretty dang good and using the lucky halfling feat sounds like fun to me. At higher levels he will fight defensively and have a very good AC and CMD, especially vs. trip and grapple. I will take the halfling favored class option(fighter) to improve CMD and can use a wand to grease up before or during a grapple(+10). Crusader domain will be darkness in order to get the Blindfight feat, don't want to lose the huge dodge bonuses to AC just cause i can't see the enemy!
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