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For anyone who hasn't seen them yet, there are a couple of full page spreads (one of the Shirren, the other from the beginning of the Mystic) over at Enworld that are worth looking at.
Thanks for the heads up! The layout is quite striking.
I like how it looks like the class feature section is laid out. Looks like it will be easy to reference what you get at what level without having to flip back to the class table.
The color combination makes my eyes bleed a little, but I like the formatting.
Interesting way of doing HP. I assume starting HP is race + class?
And then stamina + con as the first 'layer'.
As far as the class goes, potentially interesting. Not sure about hardwired healing touch, telepathy or only 1 good save, but I'd love to see the list of connections and connection powers.
Strange - I didn't observe any reference to anatomical differences between Shirren sexes. I kind of figured this would be the place to clarify. Maybe some developer will spill the beans for the right peace offering/blood sacrifice/wad of cash I have lying around?
I noticed that the BAB doesn't list iterative attacks. Is this for space reasons or a hint at the system having changed? (Honestly, it was a crappy system to begin with...)
Cool! I like it!
No changes to save progressions or how spell DCs are calculated? That's... odd. The problems with different save progressions drifting further off the RNG from each other are well known and established. As are 6 level spell caster DCs falling behind to the point where it's rarely worth using spells that force saves. Seems like any spellcaster effects that target enemy saves are probably going to have to come from class features to scale properly.
No changes to save progressions or how spell DCs are calculated? That's... odd. The problems with different save progressions drifting further off the RNG from each other are well known and established. As are 6 level spell caster DCs falling behind to the point where it's rarely worth using spells that force saves. Seems like any spellcaster effects that target enemy saves are probably going to have to come from class features to scale properly.
Perhaps save-boosting abilities are baked into many of the spell casting classes? Or maybe there are more potent spell DC boosting feats in Starfinder.
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Maybe. That seems more complicated than just using a better method than spell level to determine save DCs, so I'm not really sure why you'd design something like that.
Well with zero information to go on, and no idea how Resolve Points could influence those DC's, we won't know till we see it. Since historically 6/9th casters have struggled to get good saves without class modifiers or debuffs (mesmerists come to mind), we'll likely see some methods of boosting those DCs.
Lovin' my bugs the more I see of 'em. I agree that we need more host information. It's gotta be in the book somewhere.
Furthermore, I second the notion that built in cleric stuff at level 1 seems odd for such a nebulous class. Yet, I also see it as something most would be retiscent to give up. The iconic figuratively has heal on-a-stick.
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I'd think that mystics have connection powers and technomancers have spell hacks that can either raise Dcs or lower saves. We also know the combat math has be changed, and there is no reason to think that saving throws dcs wouldn't be tweaked as well.
The removal of 9th level casting doesn't mean offensive spells are useless.
So I've been doing this a lot lately...
Is it August yet?
So, the "connection" is definitely looking like it will serve a similar function to domains, bonus spells and all.
Really like the look of things so far, although I've got a lot of questions about the origin of the Shirren. I am very curious to find out how they managed to break off from the swarm.
I just thought of a physiological problem concerning our arthropod pals. It doesn't explicitly say that shirren have trouble speaking with their mouth parts, but it seems implied. So, would they have trouble with using a comm-set? Would that just sound like a bunch of clicking and clacking on the other side?
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Developer, Starfinder Team
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I just thought of a physiological problem concerning our arthropod pals. It doesn't explicitly say that shirren have trouble speaking with their mouth parts, but it seems implied. So, would they have trouble with using a comm-set? Would that just sound like a bunch of clicking and clacking on the other side?
I suspect in the far future with dozens of sentient species around, potential problems with comm sets have been solved with comm set manufacturers. :)
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I just thought of a physiological problem concerning our arthropod pals. It doesn't explicitly say that shirren have trouble speaking with their mouth parts, but it seems implied. So, would they have trouble with using a comm-set? Would that just sound like a bunch of clicking and clacking on the other side?I suspect in the far future with dozens of sentient species around, potential problems with comm sets have been solved with comm set manufacturers. :)
Riiiiiggghhhht. Because no one has ever experienced a problem with a communication device before. LOL. ;P In Starfinder, when you call Abadarcorp Tech Support, you probably get some unintelligible Pugwampi on the line.
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I just thought of a physiological problem concerning our arthropod pals. It doesn't explicitly say that shirren have trouble speaking with their mouth parts, but it seems implied. So, would they have trouble with using a comm-set? Would that just sound like a bunch of clicking and clacking on the other side?I suspect in the far future with dozens of sentient species around, potential problems with comm sets have been solved with comm set manufacturers. :)
Ah, but how many billions perished during the Carrier Wars? #canyouhearmenow
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Developer, Starfinder Team
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Ah, but how many billions perished during the Carrier Wars? #canyouhearmenowI just thought of a physiological problem concerning our arthropod pals. It doesn't explicitly say that shirren have trouble speaking with their mouth parts, but it seems implied. So, would they have trouble with using a comm-set? Would that just sound like a bunch of clicking and clacking on the other side?I suspect in the far future with dozens of sentient species around, potential problems with comm sets have been solved with comm set manufacturers. :)
Those were dark times, until someone figure out how to overcome Eox's communication superweapon, "dead air."
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Those were dark times, until someone figure out how to overcome Eox's communication superweapon, "dead air."I suspect in the far future with dozens of sentient species around, potential problems with comm sets have been solved with comm set manufacturers. :)Ah, but how many billions perished during the Carrier Wars? #canyouhearmenow
"That was your father's flip phone. An elegant communication device, for a more civilized age."
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In terms of page design, these excerpts blow the Pathfinder CRB out of the water. It's obvious that there have been many lessons learned since then. I especially like that each entry starts on its own page - makes it easier to find the race or class you're looking for while flipping though the chapter, as well as the "playing a _" sidebar, the "key ability score" tab, and the prominently labeled weapon and armor proficiencies.
Also note in Shirren names, a feature that I often worked into my characterizations of Thri-kreen: no M's, P's, or B- sounds in their names, probably because of a lack of lips. :) kudoes to the team for thinking about things like this.
No changes to save progressions or how spell DCs are calculated? That's... odd. The problems with different save progressions drifting further off the RNG from each other are well known and established. As are 6 level spell caster DCs falling behind to the point where it's rarely worth using spells that force saves. Seems like any spellcaster effects that target enemy saves are probably going to have to come from class features to scale properly.
It could be it's baked into the math by spells being more powerful then they otherwise would be. Or it could just be save and sucks are awful and we go back to the days of half damage spells being the standard. Or perhaps spells become purely worthless except for buffing.
I can't say I'm a fan of the layout. I'm a big fan of moving away from Pathfinder CRB's cramped style. But this seems too far in the other direction and is extremely reminiscent (and to be honest seems a cut and paste in style) from 4th ed's PHB style, especially with the races. But I'll give Paizo the benefit of the doubt and assume they tried various different layouts and found this one was the optimal point for both aesthetics and density of information.
The class is extremely interesting in it's presentation and again shades of 4th ed seem to be shining through.
As for the content itself, I like what I see. Starfinder races look extremely similar to Pathfinder races. Although finally! A race with telepathy! I've been wanting that for ages in Pathfinder (I've played other games where telepathic communication was standard and got very accustomed to it. I almost always organise for the party to get telepathy at the appropriate level through one method or another). For that reason alone Shirren are likely to be my first choice if I get a chance to play.
Although I see flat footed armor class is still a thing. So does this mean we're going to have:
Kinetic Armor Class
Flat-Footed Kinetic Armor Class
Energy Armor Class
Flat-Footed Energy Armor Class
? I hope we're not going to somehow try to shoehorn a touch AC into that somehow as well.
The biggest change is getting HP from your race. Combined with class a Shirren Mystic gets 12 HP at 1st level plus an additional 6+Con mod stamina points per level? Assuming stamina points are the "temp HP" that regens after every battle, we're seeing a much hardier group of people (comparable to a fighter in Pathfinder) which I hope is indicative of how limited healing will be and we'll finally move away from the wands of unlimited HP that plagues the Pathfinder games I play in.
The spell progression of the Mystic is standard spontaneous 6th level caster. Given a Mystic is primarily a caster I'll be interested to see how they stack up compared with Starfinder fighters. I like that magic item identification is just a thing that spellcasters can do. I believe we don't have a dedicated spellcraft skill (which is fitting of a SCIENCE fantasy game) so it's a good way to just handle it.
The connection at the moment is very focused on a deity connection, but I'm hoping it's more flexible then that. I'm thinking of a connection being one to a draconic bloodline for a sorcerer flavoured mystic. Or perhaps a connection to a tome that contains archaic passages and strange formulas that assists the mystic in casting spells for a more wizard flavoured mystic.
The connection power looks like the stock standard domain powers, although I'm hoping it's more ala carte where your connection lets you choose from a pool of powers. After all, clerics got the ability to choose which domain powers they wanted (to a limited degree) once the first supplement came out. It'd be nice if Starfinder had that flexibility built in. However the fact it says the power is "unique to the connection" makes me think it won't be.
Connection spell looks like the same stock standard domain spells.
Flat footed is a condition that imparts a -2 penalty to AC.
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Flat footed is a condition that imparts a -2 penalty to AC.
Woohoo! I hate flat-footed and touch AC in Pathfinder and to this day I still don't know what the values should be for my characters (I just fudge them or get someone to double check when it comes up).
For fun, I thought I'd try to build the Shirren using the ARG guidelines. Keeping in mind these guidelines have little to no validity with Starfinder given that Starfinder's assumptions are potentially quite different to Pathfinder. The interesting thing that stood out is that Shirren don't have a base speed or languages listed in their writeup.
Standard Ability Score (0): +2 CON, +2 WIS, -2 CHA
Humanoid (shirren) (0)
Medium (0)
Normal Speed (0) - Not actually mentioned in the racial writeup.
Blindsense (4) - Seems on par with scent
Communalism (1) - Seems about right for this ability.
Cultural Fascination (4)
Limited Telepathy (1) - Although I love this ability, this seems about right for it.
Standard Language (0) - Not actually mentioned in the racial writeup
Total BP: 10
Interestingly enough it comes out at 10 BP. But this is more likely just a coincidence then any indicator of anything meaningful about how the races have been constructed.
[EDIT]:If you wanted to have a Shirren/Locustfolk in Pathfinder, this would actually be a pretty good way to go about it.
Pathfinder also "recently" got were-vermin and I've been gushing over them ever since I first saw them.
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I just thought of a physiological problem concerning our arthropod pals. It doesn't explicitly say that shirren have trouble speaking with their mouth parts, but it seems implied. So, would they have trouble with using a comm-set? Would that just sound like a bunch of clicking and clacking on the other side?
While they *can* speak Common audibly, it's not super comfortable for them, and a lot of other races find the sound disconcerting, so they tend to default to telepathy. Which is its own kind of disconcerting. :D
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For fun, I thought I'd try to build the Shirren using the ARG guidelines.
Limited Telepathy (1) - Although I love this ability, this seems about right for it.
FWIW, the Inner Sea Bestiary puts the lashunta's limited telepathy ability at 3 RP.