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To me, counterspelling works through destructive wave interference. Your beads of fireball and scorching rays meet in mid-air, cancelling each other out. With that narrative, both spells need to be cast.
That really only works for spells with visual effects and/or spells targeting someone. What about a personal spell? What if stoneskin is being cast by your target and you want to counter it so the fighter doesn't have to deal with it. If the spell is "successfully cast" or "completed" the spell would presumably go into effect. I just think that considering a spell successful/complete followed by the countering creates strange conditions. For ease of understanding and preventing unforeseen interactions (loopholes) with other abilities, it is better to say a counterspell interrupts the casting of the original. The counter-spell is successfully cast, but not for the intent for which it is designed. You just funnel the spell power into the target spell to overload or short-circuit it or whatever to prevent it from successfully manifesting. To me, this is the only way it makes sense.
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So, to my original question. If the quote is correct, does counterspelling an evil spell with the same evil spell constitute an evil act in PFS?
I say yes. Remember, casting the spell is evil, period. Not the "successfully" casting the spell. If you are attempting to gather the power of evil and channel it into a spell, it is evil. As has been stated, using evil to do good things is still evil. Its why being good is harder than being evil. Its also why soo often in literature and whatever that someone good falls to evil because they are pushed to the edge of thinking they have to stoop to the level of the evil to combat it.
Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Omaha
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Is there a range for counter spelling that is different than the spell's? I don't think you can counter personal spells.Dunno, maybe. I am not looking at the rules right now. Just theory-crafting based on the common imagery of counterspelling, not the nuances of the rules.
I wouldn't argue your ruling at a table, but I don't think it quite has the rules backing it up. You would need a reach rod for touch spells if you aren't adjacent, and can't counter personal spells without Improved Counterspell. For me, spells without flashy visual effects can work the same as those that do, it's just harder to see.
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Is there a range for counter spelling that is different than the spell's? I don't think you can counter personal spells.
The only range requirement, that I'm aware of, is the requirement of first identifying the spell with spellcraft (which can be affected by perception checks, or otherwise being unable to observe the caster casting their spells).
Nothing in the rules for counterspell suggest that personal spells are off limits, or even that range of the spell is used for counterspelling. That's one of the reasons I question if evil descriptor applies for counterspelling purposes, since that would be one of the effects of the spell.
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So, to my original question. If the quote is correct, does counterspelling an evil spell with the same evil spell constitute an evil act in PFS?I say yes. Remember, casting the spell is evil, period. Not the "successfully" casting the spell. If you are attempting to gather the power of evil and channel it into a spell, it is evil. As has been stated, using evil to do good things is still evil. Its why being good is harder than being evil. Its also why soo often in literature and whatever that someone good falls to evil because they are pushed to the edge of thinking they have to stoop to the level of the evil to combat it.
And we're back.... The Divine Scion heals when they "Cast" a domain spell, not when they "successfully" cast a domain spell. The "successful" bit is Rysky's wording from a page back.
I'm totally unclear where the distinction is between casting and successfully casting. Is a failed casting considered a casting?
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I'm totally unclear where the distinction is between casting and successfully casting. Is a failed casting considered a casting?
Depends on when the action is considered casting and where the table variation is likely to reside. If you consider "casting" the start of the action needed to "cast a spell" then yes, ancillary actions like "whenever you cast a spell" would trigger. However, if you only consider a spell cast once it is completed, then no, counter-spelling would interrupt that and prevent an ancillary effects from triggering.
I think if you read most places where casting a spell is discussed, it is assumed by the rules the spell was cast successfully. The word "successfully" is inherent to the meaning of the discussion.
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Side note: the counterspell rules definitely talk about range.
If the target is within range, both spells automatically negate each other with no other results.
Now I can't think of any other range than the range of the spell being used.
hmmmm.... Also says that the target is the opponent you are attempting to counterspell. Could be right, yeah, range of the spell might be used. I read it as the spell having a different effect, a counterspelling effect, as described, and I consider range to part of the effect. Though the passage is definitely unclear as to how range and the target are supposed to interact with the spells. If personal spells were intended to not be valid targets, it should really mention that somewhere...
Really wish they'd included some examples for the very short counterspell section.
How did 3.5 handle counterspelling?
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The 3.5 counterspelling rules were dropped directly into Pathfinder without any alteration.
and here is some extra info from the D&D era Rules of the Game More Magical Oddities
The part about range is in the last paragraph of the article.
I played a counterspelling warmage back then and made sure I had close or longer range conjuration spells so that I could counterspell enemy cures.
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and here is some extra info from the D&D era Rules of the Game More Magical Oddities
The part about range is in the last paragraph of the article.
Super helpful, thank you. Wish Paizo would do an article like that one, just for clarity.
