TriOmegaZero is correct. You divide by the number of PCs, not by 4.
thats not how averages work
Yes, that is literally how averages work.
The average, or arithmetic mean, is defined as summing all the members in a set, then dividing by the number of members of the set.
If you have 4 characters of 4th level, the average is 4. If you have 20 characters of 4th level, the average is still 4.
Once you have the average, you can adjust it up or down to compensate for number of players compared to the assumed 4 or 5 character party.
yes but the book assumes a party of 4 there for you need to make your calculations based on said assumption so while you may have 6 players in the party you calculate on the notion that they are just 4 when you divide otherwise your 6 person party will be destroying that cr 10 encounter at level 10 no problem at all so while a cr 10 encounter may be applicable for a normal fight vs 4 person party a 6 person party needs a cr 15 encounter for it to be a normal encounterthats not how averages workYes, that is literally how averages work.
The average, or arithmetic mean, is defined as summing all the members in a set, then dividing by the number of members of the set.
If you have 4 characters of 4th level, the average is 4. If you have 20 characters of 4th level, the average is still 4.
Once you have the average, you can adjust it up or down to compensate for number of players compared to the assumed 4 or 5 character party.
LadyJ, you do realize that a CR15 encounter is NOT 50% more powerful than a CR10 encounter, don't you?
I am currently planning a homebrew campaign for a group of about 6. While chatting with one player he has given me insight to just how much he has researched and optimized his monk. I looked into CR 15 monsters to see if there were ones that could even handle his monk when he is around level 15 as well. What I came to find out was that he is damn near untouchable with his AC and they stand no chance against his offensive capabilities as well.
As a GM how do you get around these types of groups or certain players? Do you just increase the CR by 1-2 levels or do you look for certain types of enemies that will attack his few weaknesses? This is only my 2nd or 3rd campaign and first ever homebrew so I'm looking for any advice I can get
All of the other advice aside...
First off, monsters of greater than 1 Intelligence aren't completely stupid and suicidal. If they can't hit the monk, they're not going to keep attacking him, unless the GM decides that they're just that stupid and suicidal. They're going to seek softer targets and avoid the monk. The monk will spend plenty of actions chasing after fleeing monsters while the rest gang up on other party members. This is the trap of "power turtling". Throw down some glue seal or a tar pool to try to slow that monk down. The point is that if the monk is too tough of a nut to crack, go for the squishies and don't engage the monk until you've got him surrounded. Of course, you might get the monk to lay down his arms and surrender if another party member's life is at risk. It's a common theme and tactic in both literature and real life.
Of course, you don't need to "hit" a character to hurt them. Sure, the monk has awesome saves, but you can use area-of-effect spells that do half damage upon a successful save, for example. Of course, persistent spells may help out a bit with that. I'm sure if you experiment, you can find something that will be effective without being brutal.
Best wishes!
LadyJ, you do realize that a CR15 encounter is NOT 50% more powerful than a CR10 encounter, don't you?it should be as a cr 15 creature has around 50% more hp 50% more to hit 50% more ac 50% more dpr 50% more saves ect. over a cr 10 creature even if you split it into multiple creatures while it gets a little bit wonky the more creatures you as it adds more action economy to the enemy it should roughly be 50% more difficult
As has been previously stated in this thread, please take a look at the gamemastering section of the core rule book. Table: CR Equivalencies clearly shows that a CR15 encounter is roughly the equivalent of 6 CR10s. Furthermore, it shows that a simple doubling of the number of creatures in the encounter does not double the CR, but only increases the CR by +2. APL and CR expectations increase exponentially, not linearly.
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yes but the book assumes a party of 4 there for you need to make your calculations based on said assumption
No, you do not.
For example, if your group consists of six players, two of which are 4th level and four of which are 5th level, their APL is 6th (28 total levels, divided by six players, rounding up, and adding one to the final result).
Straight from the rules text. 6 players, you divide by 6.
monks have evasion and improved evasion so they would take no damage on a successful reflex save and half on a failed one
You're absolutely correct, but it's better than nothing.
Back to the original poster:
Give the monk something else to worry about. While running around in the dungeon, one of the enemy spellcasters happens to throw up walls of force, trapping the monk, who has to spend time and energy taking down the walls of force instead of doing anything else. How quickly can that monk throw down at least 100 points of damage against a wall of force? That will certainly slow him down. Of course, they can summon swarms of bats to occupy the spaces around the monk before slamming down walls of force to box him in. That ought to keep him busy for a while. (Side note: Don't be a jerk about the monk. Enemy spellcasters wouldn't single him out just because. They'd have to have a reason. Perhaps his reputation precedes him? Maybe they observed him earlier in the dungeon, or got a report about his fighting prowess.)
Another option: Throw an antipaladin (for similar saves) or another monk at him. I would recommend a strix antipaladin that has mithral full plate of speed or strix monk with boots of speed to keep up with the monk and keep him busy (it'll have a fly speed of 90). Give it the flyby attack feat and it can attack in the middle of its move, keeping it away from the monk while still harassing him. Just how fast is your monk going to move? He's probably going to need a haste spell, himself, if he's going to keep up with the strix (since he probably moves at 80 feet per round at 15th level). Good luck with that.
Alternatively, throw a half-elven witch at him. Cast ill omen with the piercing spell metamagic (the 15th level monk's spell resistance is only going to be treated as a 10 at that point) as a second level spell to force him to reroll frequently, then hit him with save-or-suck spells guaranteed to make his life miserable if he fails the save. Grant your witch the elven spirit and spell penetration feats. Throw down a duplicate witch and give them both the Allied Spellcaster feat to further overcome the monk's spell resistance. A level 15 witch with all of this can have a +23 vs. SR to slap that monk with ill omen before zapping him with spells. Even without the second witch (negating the Allied Spellcaster benefit), your half elven witch would have +19 vs. the monk's SR 10.
Look for spells that don't have save-or-suck effects. Try casting terrible remorse to stagger him, try to grapple him, then have a lot of fun when his AC is nerfed pretty hard by being immobilized.
There are a bunch of options to give a challenge to the monk (or the monk's party), and these are all options that explicitly target the monk. You can shut him down, but the goal is to provide a challenge, not to kill him.
Best wishes!