Okay so here is my question and as far as I have seen there is no definitive answer on this. If there is please link me it.
If you have items or abilities which allow you to count as x levels higher in y class for x ability can your level + x be higher than 20?
I know many abilities have lines like to a maximum of +x at level 19 or 20 but this is more for abilities which do not have that line. For instance Bravery.
Text of Bravery:
Starting at 2nd level, a fighter gains a +1 bonus on Will saves against fear. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels beyond 2nd.
So if you had an item like Sash of the War Champion and/or Band of the Stalwart Warrior would you be able to have a +6 or +7 bravery bonus at level 20?
Let me be clear, I am not looking for weighing in on things which go off tables which don't go above 20 I am looking for a consensus on things which scale linearly to level. So the Monk with Monk's Robes argument does not exactly work here as it is based off a table which does not address level 21+.
Here are the reasons I believe you should be able to do this.
-There are abilities which do call out maximums at certain levels such as the Cavalier's Challenge ability which can be used "a maximum of seven times per day at level 19"
-There are abilities which specifically call out levels which they improve instead of listing a progression. Trap Sense from the rogue for instance. It calls out each level individually where it improves rather than saying at level three and every three levels after.
-There are means of increasing some of these abilities past what would be their normal maximum through items such as items which give flat bonuses to weapon training with Gloves of Dueling.
-There is nothing in the rules to indicate that you can't
-This might have been a way to make certain abilities a little better by not capping them as you get into high levels.
Here are the reasons I believe it should not be allowed.
-It could lead to some very unintended consequences for SLA, SU, and EX abilities which base their DC off of 'class level'
-It feels like this may have been a writing oversight or simply a means of saving space when writing the book.
-This seems to break the normal rule of you can't take more than 20 levels in a given class. (Though you are not taking more levels just increasing your effective levels)
Thoughts and Opinions welcome please discuss and if you want this to be answered pop that FAQ button.
I don't think I've seen a definitive ruling either way, but honestly, by the time you're high enough in level for it to matter, it's not likely to make a big difference anyway. XD I mean, an additional one or two bonus versus fear isn't exactly game-breaking, you know?
Furthermore, most such bonuses come from items - you know, something you've invested your character's wealth into either obtaining or keeping. I'm not terribly fond of things that render your character's gear worthless when you're past a certain point, so I'm generally in favor of allowing it in at least most circumstances. I'd still check it case-by-case, though.
I don't think I've seen a definitive ruling either way, but honestly, by the time you're high enough in level for it to matter, it's not likely to make a big difference anyway. XD I mean, an additional one or two bonus versus fear isn't exactly game-breaking, you know?
Furthermore, most such bonuses come from items - you know, something you've invested your character's wealth into either obtaining or keeping. I'm not terribly fond of things that render your character's gear worthless when you're past a certain point, so I'm generally in favor of allowing it in at least most circumstances. I'd still check it case-by-case, though.
Except a +1-2 to initiative and all will saves is somewhat important as you can get bravery bonus to Initiative through the feat Bravery in Action and through the fighter advanced weapon training Armed Bravery.
Eh, Fighters need better Will Saves. I wouldn't begrudge them the boost if they were investing a feat or Advanced Weapon Training - that is, a limited resource they get - into doing that. They have to invest those into something, after all, and getting a boost for doing so is the whole point. Furthermore, if they were willing to take those choices at all, they'd probably be doing so whether or not they got the extra bonus there. Those numbers are in the realm of "nice extra" more than "deal maker".
That, and an extra +2 to Initiative is worth exactly half a feat (specifically, half of Improved Initiative). That is not a huge difference at higher levels, when characters probably have multiple buffs and powers to help them go first anyway.
Fun Fact, the CRB has epic level rules that (sort of) cover this.
Full Wall of Text copied from the PRD:
Core Rulebook wrote:
Beyond 20th Level
Although Classes doesn't describe what happens after 20th level, this isn't to say that there are no resources available to you should you wish to continue your campaign on to 21st level and beyond. Rules for epic-level play like this exist in numerous products that are compatible with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, although in many cases these alternative rules can provide unanticipated problems. For example, if your campaign world is populated by creatures and villains who, at the upper limit of power, can challenge a 20th-level character, where will epic-level PCs go for challenges? You might be looking at creating an entirely new campaign setting, one set on different planes, planets, or dimensions from the one where your players spent their first 20 levels, and that's a lot of work.
Paizo Publishing may eventually publish rules to take your game into these epic realms, but if you can't wait and would rather not use existing open content rules for epic-level play, you can use the following brief guidelines to continue beyond 20th level. Note that these guidelines aren't robust enough to keep the game vibrant and interesting on their own for much longer past 20th level, but they should do in a pinch for a campaign that needs, say, 22 or 23 experience levels to wrap up. Likewise, you can use these rules to create super-powerful NPCs for 20th-level characters to face.
Experience Points: To gain a level beyond 20th, a character must double the experience points needed to achieve the previous level. Thus, assuming the medium XP progression, a 20th-level character needs 2,100,000 XP to become 21st level, since he needed 1,050,000 XP to reach 20th level from 19th. He'd then need 4,200,000 XP to reach 22nd level, 8,400,000 XP to reach 23rd, and so on.
Scaling Powers: Hit dice, base attack bonuses, and saving throws continue to increase at the same rate beyond 20th level, as appropriate for the class in question. Note that no character can have more than 4 attacks based on its base attack bonus. Note also that, before long, the difference between good saving throws and poor saving throws becomes awkwardly large—the further you get from 20th level, the more noticeable this difference grows, and for high-level characters, bolstering their poor saving throws should become increasingly important. Class abilities that have a set, increasing rate, such as a barbarian's damage reduction, a fighter's bonus feats and weapon training, a paladin's smite evil, or a rogue's sneak attack continue to progress at the appropriate rate.
Spells: A spellcaster's caster level continues to increase by one for each level beyond 20th level. Every odd-numbered level, a spellcaster gains access to a new level of spell one above his previous maximum level, gaining one spell slot in that new level. These spell slots can be used to prepare or cast spells adjusted by metamagic feats or any known spell of lower levels. Every even-numbered level, a spellcaster gains additional spell slots equal to the highest level spell he can currently cast. He can split these new slots any way he wants among the slots he currently has access to.
For example, a 21st-level wizard gains a single 10th-level spell slot, in which he can prepare any spell of level 1st through 9th, or in which he can prepare a metamagic spell that results in an effective spell level of 10 (such as extended summon monster IX, or quickened disintegrate). At 22nd level he gains 10 spell-levels' worth of new spell slots, and can gain 10 1st-level spells per day, two 5th-level spells per day, one 7th-level and one 3rd-level spell per day, or one more 10th-level spell per day. At 23rd level, he gains a single 11th-level spell slot, and so on.
Spellcasters who have a limited number of spells known (such as bards and sorcerers) can opt out of the benefits they gain (either a new level of spells or a number of spell slots) for that level and in exchange learn two more spells of any level they can currently cast.
You might want to further adjust the rate of spell level gain for classes (like paladins and rangers) who gain spells more slowly than more dedicated spellcaster classes.
Multiclassing/Prestige Classes: The simplest way to progress beyond 20th level is to simply multiclass or take levels in a prestige class, in which case you gain all of the abilities of the new class level normally. This effectively treats 20th level as a hard limit for class level, but not as a hard limit for total character level.
Important text is bolded.
So, yes abilities without a cap do scale past level 20.
Officially, yes and no. Best bet, if you want to advance as a given class further than level 20 would be to take prestige classes.But Paradozen has given the formula for figuring it out, if you REALLY want to be a 21st level wizard or something.
