Owen, from a glimpse of First Contact, it looked like the Operative's Trick Attack required an operative weapon to work. If that's true, and all operative weapons are melee weapons, is there no way to do Trick Attack at range?
It was "either Small Arms or Operative Weapons".
Owen, from a glimpse of First Contact, it looked like the Operative's Trick Attack required an operative weapon to work. If that's true, and all operative weapons are melee weapons, is there no way to do Trick Attack at range?It was "either Small Arms or Operative Weapons".
Of course. That's what I get for not double-checking and just going from memory.
Of course. That's what I get for not double-checking and just going from memory.Owen, from a glimpse of First Contact, it looked like the Operative's Trick Attack required an operative weapon to work. If that's true, and all operative weapons are melee weapons, is there no way to do Trick Attack at range?It was "either Small Arms or Operative Weapons".
I feel your pain
Developer, Starfinder Team
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Owen, from a glimpse of First Contact, it looked like the Operative's Trick Attack required an operative weapon to work. If that's true, and all operative weapons are melee weapons, is there no way to do Trick Attack at range?
Trick Attack requires either any small arm, or a melee weapon that specifically has the operative weapon quality.
It was stated in another thread that Trick Attack scales 1d8 every odd level.
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Charisma is a clear dump stat for virtually any Pathfinder class without Charisma-based class features, especially given how trivial it is to replace CHA with INT on skills. That, in my eyes, is poor design.So what? If you want to say Ability Score consolidation is a bad thing, what about using Dex for Damage? Totally turns Str into a Dump stat, you'll never really need to have it on an optimized character. Instead of a greatsword, just have 2 swords and you're golden. Strength is a clear dump stat for virtually any Pathfinder class without Strength-based class features. That, in my eyes, is poor design.
I'm just ribbing you with that last part. Seriously though, there are plenty of classes that utilize Charisma, including my favorite class, The Paladin. Sure it has Charisma based abilities, but that also lets you put points into Skills that key off of Charisma so you can be more than a beat stick.
The truth is that not all Ability Scores are created equal. Some need classes that have abilities key off of them instead of being able to rely on core game mechanics. That's OK, because there are a lot of people that abhor any kind of dump stat. A friend of mine loves playing dwarves, but always has at least a 12 Charisma before racial modifiers so he never has a penalty. Personally, I've never used Charisma as a dump stat, but the next time I play a Ranger I will because I thought up a backstory that leaves him physically and mentally scarred and bitter.
Wow, that went on for a little longer than I thought it would. Apologies for the rant.
Mind you, I never said anything good about STR, either. I think STR is also poorly designed in this game.
CON, DEX, INT, WIS, are all useful for virtually any character (with a few edge cases that can make one or another of those stats redundant through class features). STR and CHA? Designated dump stats for almost everyone. Look at the Orator feat. Look at the Clever Wordplay trait. Outside of "I take CHA...
>there's no reason to ever have CHA above 7 if you don't have CHA-based class features.
Leadership.
...Charisma is a clear dump stat for virtually any Pathfinder class without Charisma-based class features, especially given how trivial it is to replace CHA with INT on skills. That, in my eyes, is poor design.So what? If you want to say Ability Score consolidation is a bad thing, what about using Dex for Damage? Totally turns Str into a Dump stat, you'll never really need to have it on an optimized character. Instead of a greatsword, just have 2 swords and you're golden. Strength is a clear dump stat for virtually any Pathfinder class without Strength-based class features. That, in my eyes, is poor design.
I'm just ribbing you with that last part. Seriously though, there are plenty of classes that utilize Charisma, including my favorite class, The Paladin. Sure it has Charisma based abilities, but that also lets you put points into Skills that key off of Charisma so you can be more than a beat stick.
The truth is that not all Ability Scores are created equal. Some need classes that have abilities key off of them instead of being able to rely on core game mechanics. That's OK, because there are a lot of people that abhor any kind of dump stat. A friend of mine loves playing dwarves, but always has at least a 12 Charisma before racial modifiers so he never has a penalty. Personally, I've never used Charisma as a dump stat, but the next time I play a Ranger I will because I thought up a backstory that leaves him physically and mentally scarred and bitter.
Wow, that went on for a little longer than I thought it would. Apologies for the rant.
Mind you, I never said anything good about STR, either. I think STR is also poorly designed in this game.
CON, DEX, INT, WIS, are all useful for virtually any character (with a few edge cases that can make one or another of those stats redundant through class features). STR and CHA? Designated dump stats for almost everyone. Look at the Orator feat. Look at the Clever Wordplay
Oh, right, that feat exists. I didn't even remember, because I never played in or ran a game where it wasn't banned.
Either way, a single feat being the only thing an ability score does isn't good either.
Recently had a fitting situation in the game
My gf plays a charisma optimized female mesmerist and another player has a tiefling with -1 mod
in that particular party we play with "crit -> roll again and add it"
well they both flirted with the same girl. he rolled effective a 2 while she almost smashed the 50
I don't think I need to tell who scored that night
I know -1 mod is not that bad considering the everage joe but that player manages to make the worst of it on a regular base
If I'm GMing:
Str 7: you are encumbered by your cloak if it rains.
Cha 7: everyone hates you.
Ideally, core mechanics of a game shouldn't require homebrew fixes.
Recently had a fitting situation in the game
My gf plays a charisma optimized female mesmerist and another player has a tiefling with -1 mod
in that particular party we play with "crit -> roll again and add it"
well they both flirted with the same girl. he rolled effective a 2 while she almost smashed the 50
I don't think I need to tell who scored that nightI know -1 mod is not that bad considering the everage joe but that player manages to make the worst of it on a regular base
There's a myriad ways to replace Charisma-based skills with either Intelligence or Wisdom. You can quite easily be more persuasive than a 16 Charisma character while having 7 Charisma yourself, as long as you pick some of those options.
I don't think that charisma can really be replaced in flirting with npcs - I mean, of course rules can do that...but would you really prefer the old man with cha -1 mod and reeeaaally bad pick up lines above the elf girl with a nearly +10 mod who knows her game?
(okay it depends on the taste a little but I sure know what I would choose)
...Charisma is a clear dump stat for virtually any Pathfinder class without Charisma-based class features, especially given how trivial it is to replace CHA with INT on skills. That, in my eyes, is poor design.So what? If you want to say Ability Score consolidation is a bad thing, what about using Dex for Damage? Totally turns Str into a Dump stat, you'll never really need to have it on an optimized character. Instead of a greatsword, just have 2 swords and you're golden. Strength is a clear dump stat for virtually any Pathfinder class without Strength-based class features. That, in my eyes, is poor design.
I'm just ribbing you with that last part. Seriously though, there are plenty of classes that utilize Charisma, including my favorite class, The Paladin. Sure it has Charisma based abilities, but that also lets you put points into Skills that key off of Charisma so you can be more than a beat stick.
The truth is that not all Ability Scores are created equal. Some need classes that have abilities key off of them instead of being able to rely on core game mechanics. That's OK, because there are a lot of people that abhor any kind of dump stat. A friend of mine loves playing dwarves, but always has at least a 12 Charisma before racial modifiers so he never has a penalty. Personally, I've never used Charisma as a dump stat, but the next time I play a Ranger I will because I thought up a backstory that leaves him physically and mentally scarred and bitter.
Wow, that went on for a little longer than I thought it would. Apologies for the rant.
Mind you, I never said anything good about STR, either. I think STR is also poorly designed in this game.
CON, DEX, INT, WIS, are all useful for virtually any character (with a few edge cases that can make one or another of those stats redundant through class features). STR and CHA? Designated dump stats for almost everyone. Look at the Orator feat.
In a game I am currently in, every party member has it.
I personally love the concept of Leadership. I think it would be even more powerful now.
...Charisma is a clear dump stat for virtually any Pathfinder class without Charisma-based class features, especially given how trivial it is to replace CHA with INT on skills. That, in my eyes, is poor design.So what? If you want to say Ability Score consolidation is a bad thing, what about using Dex for Damage? Totally turns Str into a Dump stat, you'll never really need to have it on an optimized character. Instead of a greatsword, just have 2 swords and you're golden. Strength is a clear dump stat for virtually any Pathfinder class without Strength-based class features. That, in my eyes, is poor design.
I'm just ribbing you with that last part. Seriously though, there are plenty of classes that utilize Charisma, including my favorite class, The Paladin. Sure it has Charisma based abilities, but that also lets you put points into Skills that key off of Charisma so you can be more than a beat stick.
The truth is that not all Ability Scores are created equal. Some need classes that have abilities key off of them instead of being able to rely on core game mechanics. That's OK, because there are a lot of people that abhor any kind of dump stat. A friend of mine loves playing dwarves, but always has at least a 12 Charisma before racial modifiers so he never has a penalty. Personally, I've never used Charisma as a dump stat, but the next time I play a Ranger I will because I thought up a backstory that leaves him physically and mentally scarred and bitter.
Wow, that went on for a little longer than I thought it would. Apologies for the rant.
Mind you, I never said anything good about STR, either. I think STR is also poorly designed in this game.
CON, DEX, INT, WIS, are all useful for virtually any character (with a few edge cases that can make one or another of those stats redundant through class features). STR and CHA? Designated dump stats for almost everyone.
I know the game you're speaking of, and it's not even Pathfinder.
...Charisma is a clear dump stat for virtually any Pathfinder class without Charisma-based class features, especially given how trivial it is to replace CHA with INT on skills. That, in my eyes, is poor design.So what? If you want to say Ability Score consolidation is a bad thing, what about using Dex for Damage? Totally turns Str into a Dump stat, you'll never really need to have it on an optimized character. Instead of a greatsword, just have 2 swords and you're golden. Strength is a clear dump stat for virtually any Pathfinder class without Strength-based class features. That, in my eyes, is poor design.
I'm just ribbing you with that last part. Seriously though, there are plenty of classes that utilize Charisma, including my favorite class, The Paladin. Sure it has Charisma based abilities, but that also lets you put points into Skills that key off of Charisma so you can be more than a beat stick.
The truth is that not all Ability Scores are created equal. Some need classes that have abilities key off of them instead of being able to rely on core game mechanics. That's OK, because there are a lot of people that abhor any kind of dump stat. A friend of mine loves playing dwarves, but always has at least a 12 Charisma before racial modifiers so he never has a penalty. Personally, I've never used Charisma as a dump stat, but the next time I play a Ranger I will because I thought up a backstory that leaves him physically and mentally scarred and bitter.
Wow, that went on for a little longer than I thought it would. Apologies for the rant.
Mind you, I never said anything good about STR, either. I think STR is also poorly designed in this game.
CON, DEX, INT, WIS, are all useful for virtually any character (with a few edge cases that can make one or another of those stats redundant through class features). STR and CHA? Designated
3.5e is close enough in game design space.
...Charisma is a clear dump stat for virtually any Pathfinder class without Charisma-based class features, especially given how trivial it is to replace CHA with INT on skills. That, in my eyes, is poor design.So what? If you want to say Ability Score consolidation is a bad thing, what about using Dex for Damage? Totally turns Str into a Dump stat, you'll never really need to have it on an optimized character. Instead of a greatsword, just have 2 swords and you're golden. Strength is a clear dump stat for virtually any Pathfinder class without Strength-based class features. That, in my eyes, is poor design.
I'm just ribbing you with that last part. Seriously though, there are plenty of classes that utilize Charisma, including my favorite class, The Paladin. Sure it has Charisma based abilities, but that also lets you put points into Skills that key off of Charisma so you can be more than a beat stick.
The truth is that not all Ability Scores are created equal. Some need classes that have abilities key off of them instead of being able to rely on core game mechanics. That's OK, because there are a lot of people that abhor any kind of dump stat. A friend of mine loves playing dwarves, but always has at least a 12 Charisma before racial modifiers so he never has a penalty. Personally, I've never used Charisma as a dump stat, but the next time I play a Ranger I will because I thought up a backstory that leaves him physically and mentally scarred and bitter.
Wow, that went on for a little longer than I thought it would. Apologies for the rant.
Mind you, I never said anything good about STR, either. I think STR is also poorly designed in this game.
CON, DEX, INT, WIS, are all useful for virtually any character (with a few edge cases that can make one or another of those stats redundant through class
The other thing is that that game is a very rare variety of high power, with almost no limits on how much the players can break the game. It's extremely unrepresentative of usual Pathfinder gameplay.