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It may not matter to you but it's the world to that character who is Trans, and it's a world's difference between having murder fantasies or calling out hits on other characters.
And I said the difference between worshipping and lip service, which if you're worshipping a deity you should emulate them.
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And I said the difference between worshipping and lip service, which if you're worshipping a deity you should emulate them.
No, you should TRY to emulate them, despite never being fully able to. Part of religion is about admiting that you are not as perfect as your deity.
If you are a perfect copy of God, why do you need to worship them? Why not just worship yourself?
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And I said the difference between worshipping and lip service, which if you're worshipping a deity you should emulate them.No, you should TRY to emulate them, despite never being fully able to. Part of religion is about admiting that you are not as perfect as your deity.
If you are a perfect copy of God, why do you need to worship them? Why not just worship yourself?
... what are you even talking about?
Yes you should try to emulate them and their teachings, that's what I've been saying.
I have no clue where you are getting the whole trying to become a god thing or thinking yourself a god or thinking yourself perfect.
Just, what?
... what?
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It may not matter to you but it's the world to that character who is Trans, and it's a world's difference between having murder fantasies or calling out hits on other characters
If it doesn't come up in session, than for PFS purposes, it really doesn't matter. Those all equally don't matter. I'm not going to debate levels of "don't care" since it's all not something that matters to the other players or to the GM. It's just something that your character may do in their off time.
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It may not matter to you but it's the world to that character who is Trans, and it's a world's difference between having murder fantasies or calling out hits on other charactersIf it doesn't come up in session, than for PFS purposes, it really doesn't matter. Those all equally don't matter. I'm not going to debate levels of "don't care" since it's all not something that matters to the other players or to the GM. It's just something that your character may do in their off time.
A character being trans and getting and using that potion would not just be confined to "off time".
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... what are you even talking about?
Yes you should try to emulate them and their teachings, that's what I've been saying.
I have no clue where you are getting the whole trying to become a god thing or thinking yourself a god or thinking yourself perfect.
Just, what?
... what?
I'm noting the distinction between role playing a character that is attempting to follow the their deity and their deity's teachings, and a role playing a character that feels that they are compelled to act exactly as their deity would.
Pharasma hates undead and would zealously destroy them. Her followers MAY do so, but they don't have to, as they are their own person with their own life and goals. Just because God would do something, doesn't mean that I, a person who is not God, have to do it.
As for losing powers, personally, I think the Cleric should have do something major and pretty obviously against their faith for the deity to take notice, that or act in a way that is against your required alignment. You are one of many clerics given a small sliver of deific power.
So, I would have the Cleric fall if their alignment became incompatible or they did anything to disrupt their disrupt their deity's areas of concern. For pharsma, this means the Cleric shouldn't be trying to disrupt the cycle of Death and Life, disrupting Fate, or attempting to undo Prophecy.
Regarding Pharasma specifically in PFS, it would be very easy to role play Pharsma worshiper that had be foretold their fate was to joint the Pathfinder Society, to work along side necromancers, and to accomplish some greater purpose for benefit of their deity.
PS, didn't mean to dwell on that other player's character. The point is that their character can do stuff in the off time, that doesn't have any effect in the session. Yeah, eventually, it might become part of a session, but for now, it hasn't and that is my point.
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It may not matter to you but it's the world to that character who is Trans, and it's a world's difference between having murder fantasies or calling out hits on other characters.
And I said the difference between worshipping and lip service, which if you're worshipping a deity you should emulate them.
Please dont bring up real world gender qualifiers as a way to push your arguement.
Thank you and continue on.|
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If you faithfully worship a deity then you are trying to emulate them, Deities are not separate from the ethos they put forth for their followers to follow (with the exception of the Accidental God). If your Deity wants you to do something or advocates you do something you should probably try to do it. Going contrary to what your Deity wants or promotes is not faithfully worshiping your Deity.
If you faithfully worship Pharasma you can't be of the mindset that Undead are acceptable.
If you faithfully worship Iomedae you can't be of the mindset that Demons are acceptable.
If you faithfully worship Zon-Kuthon you can't be of the mindset that pain is bad.
Being faithful does not in any way shape or form mean you think yourself are your God like how you are suggesting.
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If the character is Trans and is working to get that potion then yeah they kinda are a part of the session so I don't know why you keeping saying they aren't.
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It may not matter to you but it's the world to that character who is Trans, and it's a world's difference between having murder fantasies or calling out hits on other characters.
And I said the difference between worshipping and lip service, which if you're worshipping a deity you should emulate them.
Please dont bring up real world gender qualifiers as a way to push your arguement.
Thank you and continue on.
Murdock was the one that brought them up and dismissed them, not me.
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Murdock was the one that brought them up and dismissed them, not me.
Was not dismissing them. Love that character and the player that runs it is awesome. But it was a real example of something a player was doing between sessions which didn't come up during the session, which was the topic at hand and the point I was trying to get across. I do understand the sensitivity of that topic, which is why I was trying to get you away from nit picking that example, and onto what I was trying to say.
If you faithfully worship a deity then you are trying to emulate them, Deities are not separate from the ethos they put forth for their followers to follow (with the exception of the Accidental God). If your Deity wants you to do something or advocates you do something you should probably try to do it. Going contrary to what your Deity wants or promotes is not faithfully worshiping your Deity.
If you faithfully worship Pharasma you can't be of the mindset that Undead are acceptable.
There is a difference between considering undead "accceptable" options for your character and zealously destroying them whenever you encounter them.
Pharasma considers undead a Perversion. In real life, can you tollerate Perverts, or do you zealous slay them whenever you encounter them?
Yes, many pharasma worshippers do zealously destroy undead, but being faithful to pharasma doesn't require you to do so. That doesn't mean you have to accept the undead, but there's a huge world of difference between destroying something and merely not accepting it.
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If you understand that it is sensitive matter then you shouldn't dismiss it by stating that it doesn't matter or lump it in with the other "off session" activities you were suggesting such as beating up another player character or putting a hit out on them.
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"Pharasma considers undead a Perversion. In real life, can you tollerate Perverts, or do you zealous slay them whenever you encounter them?"
Disengenous. Undead are actual full on monsters that kill people and your goddess gives you superpowers to combat them. Not quite the same as real world faith, which I would advise against bringing into this.
If you are a devout "given superpowers by your goddess" Pharasmin then you can't roll your eyes at Undead like they're a minor annoyance. You have to in PFS unfortunately, but outside of that you can't abide Undead existing. If you do you are not being devout. Undead are an abomination to your goddess. You can't be devout and be okay with Undead.
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You can't be devout and be okay with Undead.
I agree with this, but, again, not being "Okay" with undead isn't the same thing as you, personally, needing to be the person that goes out and zealously destroys every undead you encounter.
And, really, undead are not even part of Pharsma's areas of concern. Again, those are Death, Life, Prophecy, and Fate. She regards undead as a perversion because they disrupt the natural cycle of Death and Life, but destroying undead should not be the defining characteristic of her clerics. Yeah, none of them are "Okay" with undead, but that doesn't need to define them.
Playing a "Midwife" Cleric of Pharasma, one that focuses on bringing new life into the world, would be a great PFS friendly character. Yeah, undead would still bother you, but you don't need to be the character that deals with that. Focus on healing and perserving the life that is, then either encourage allies to destroy the undead or mark it on a map and submit it to the Church when you have time. No need to foam at the mouth or get twitchy just because someone mentions undeath...
And PS: Pharasma is Neutral. Her Clerics can be Neutral Evil. They'd still not be "okay" with undead. Pharasma isn't opposed to Undead because they are evil or monstrous or because they kill people - she is opposed to undeath on the princible that those creatures were supposed to die and stay dead, a perversion against life and death and, perhaps, against the fate of the creature.
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You can't be devout and be okay with Undead.I agree with this, but, again, not being "Okay" with undead isn't the same thing as you, personally, needing to be the person that goes out and zealously destroys every undead you encounter.
And, really, undead are not even part of Pharsma's areas of concern. Again, those are Death, Life, Prophecy, and Fate. She regards undead as a perversion because they disrupt the natural cycle of Death and Life, but destroying undead should not be the defining characteristic of her clerics. Yeah, none of them are "Okay" with undead, but that doesn't need to define them.
Playing a "Midwife" Cleric of Pharasma, one that focuses on bringing new life into the world, would be a great PFS friendly character. Yeah, undead would still bother you, but you don't need to be the character that deals with that. Focus on healing and perserving the life that is, then either encourage allies to destroy the undead or mark it on a map and submit it to the Church when you have time. No need to foam at the mouth or get twitchy just because someone mentions undeath...
And PS: Pharasma is Neutral. Her Clerics can be Neutral Evil. They'd still not be "okay" with undead. Pharasma isn't opposed to Undead because they are evil or monstrous or because they kill people - she is opposed to undeath on the princible that those creatures were supposed to die and stay dead, a perversion against life and death and, perhaps, against the fate of the creature.
No I'm not saying every Pharasmin has to actively hunt down Undead. I'm Saying and been saying they can't be okay with Undead.
Uh, Undead are very much an area of concern with Pharasma and her followers.
And reporting areas with Undead would be one thing, traveling with someone who is constantly making Undead is a complete and whole other thing that in PFS you have to be okay with.
Yes, it's not because they are Evil, it's because Pharasma views them as an Abomination.
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No I'm not saying every Pharasmin has to actively hunt down Undead. I'm Saying and been saying they can't be okay with Undead.
Uh, Undead are very much an area of concern with Pharasma and her followers.
And reporting areas with Undead would be one thing, traveling with someone who is constantly making Undead is a complete and whole other thing that in PFS you have to be okay with.
Areas of Concern is the term used on Archives of Nethys instead of the deity's Portfolio. Not sure if it's a typo, or if it switched at some point, but that's what I'm referencing, not actual things her followers are "concerned" about.
Sounds like we agree that not every Pharasma Follower needs to activing hunt down undead, and they just shouldn't be "Okay" with them.
As for rationalizing disagreeable behaviour, my paladin is dismayed when she sees so many Pathfinders relying on evil magic (Wand of Infernal Healing) for their healing. *Clearly* those pathfinders just aren't educated enough to understand the vile nature of evil magic. Perhaps some preaching is needed... (Role played as me saying "I spend the next few minutes lecturing the other player about evil magic.")
But that's as far as it goes. Being a jerk to everyone that does things different from my ideals isn't going to promote my deity, or my path - they will conclude that either all Paladins are jerks, or that all Iomedae (my paladin's deity) followers are jerks. Such a thing would not be productive for myself or my deity. I need to lead by example, so as to promote others to follow in my footsteps, and in extension, in my deity's footsteps. Even if I never get through to them, by being someone they don't hate, I keep the door open for a future follower of Iomedae to get through to them and change their ways.
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Pretty sure Undead falls under the "death/fate" part and it is generalized, otherwise going off of Iomedae's concerns she isn't concerned at all with the Worldwound or The Whispering Tyrant.
As for her followers concerns,
Her priests are typically clerics, diviners (although less so since the death of Aroden), and necromancers who choose not to create undead. Her followers view the undead with hatred and consider them a great abomination. Pharasmins view putting the undead to rest as a holy duty. The creation of undead is outlawed, and commanding undead rather than destroying them is deeply frowned upon as well.
Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Omaha
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Murdock, I thought your initial post was well written and illustrated that a character doesn't need to bring their full story into every scenario. Some things can be left as background and not handled at the table, but still be part of the character story.
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Pretty sure Undead falls under the "death/fate" part and it is generalized, otherwise going off of Iomedae's concerns she isn't concerned at all with the Worldwound or The Whispering Tyrant.
As for her followers concerns,
Her priests are typically clerics, diviners (although less so since the death of Aroden), and necromancers who choose not to create undead. Her followers view the undead with hatred and consider them a great abomination. Pharasmins view putting the undead to rest as a holy duty. The creation of undead is outlawed, and commanding undead rather than destroying them is deeply frowned upon as well.
Yeah, "Her followers" are outlawed from creating undead, are discouraged from commanding them, and view putting the undead to rest as a holy duty.
Provided the PFS party's necromancer isn't of the Pharasma Faith, the above should not apply to them. Just the put to rest any undead the necromancer creates AFTER THE SESSION ENDS. Should be fine for a PFS character.
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Pretty sure Undead falls under the "death/fate" part and it is generalized, otherwise going off of Iomedae's concerns she isn't concerned at all with the Worldwound or The Whispering Tyrant.
As for her followers concerns,
Her priests are typically clerics, diviners (although less so since the death of Aroden), and necromancers who choose not to create undead. Her followers view the undead with hatred and consider them a great abomination. Pharasmins view putting the undead to rest as a holy duty. The creation of undead is outlawed, and commanding undead rather than destroying them is deeply frowned upon as well.Yeah, "Her followers" are outlawed from creating undead, are discouraged from commanding them, and view putting the undead to rest as a holy duty.
Provided the PFS party's necromancer isn't of the Pharasma Faith, the above should not apply to them. Just the put to rest any undead the necromancer creates AFTER THE SESSION ENDS. Should be fine for a PFS character.
Did you miss the first bolded sentence?
And this applies to all her followers, not just the ones who are Necromancers
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Did you ignore the first bolded sentence?
And this applies to all her followers, not just the ones who are Necromancers
No, didn't ignore, but I guess I just read it differently. I see that her followers hate undead and regard them as abominable, but that doesn't need to translate into immediate actions.
You can dislike the necromancer in your party, and regard his minions with hatred and as abominations, but that doesn't mean you need to destroy them immediately. Resolve the mission. Cooperate as per your oath to the society. Then wait until the mission ends, and deal with them "off camera."
Patience.
The pharama worshiper that waits until the end of the session, is the follower that goes on to perform additional missions, potentially serving a greater purpose to your deity. The one that can't wait, and insists on PVP or borderline PVP is the one that doesn't get invited back for more missions, which stunts your usefulness to your deity. That's the difference between the shortsighted Pharasma follower and the one playing the long game.
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Outside of PFS if a Pharasmin saw someone create Undead and so destroyed them they are not being shortsighted, and there's no long game here. You're using opposed roleplay and metagame constraints to try and justify your point here. Not invited back is something that occurs out of game, usefulness to your Deity is something in game. In game Lore a VC would not be stupid enough to assign a Pharasmin to work with someone that creates Undead.
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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It may not matter to you but it's the world to that character who is Trans, and it's a world's difference between having murder fantasies or calling out hits on other characters.
And I said the difference between worshipping and lip service, which if you're worshipping a deity you should emulate them.
Please dont bring up real world gender qualifiers as a way to push your arguement.
Thank you and continue on.
Rysky didn't make the arguably most offensive argument I have ever read in this forum though.
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If you are a devout "given superpowers by your goddess" Pharasmin then you can't roll your eyes at Undead like they're a minor annoyance. You have to in PFS unfortunately, but outside of that you can't abide Undead existing. If you do you are not being devout. Undead are an abomination to your goddess. You can't be devout and be okay with Undead.
That's true. But you *can* be devout and not have destroying the undead be the top thing on your priority list in the moment. At high levels it is usually the case that your adversary is the Greater Evil.
I'm starting to think that if I was playing a Pharasmin priest (which I haven't) I might start carrying around a pocketful of onyx to reimburse the necromancer so I could kill their undead between encounters without hurting their resources. Probably together with a small lecture on how I was repurchasing and redeeming their soul, and they should now sin no more.
EDIT: Also, the only time I have ever adventured with a Necromancer, it ended up being a good thing, because our adversary was *also* a Necromancer.
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As an example, my only PFS Paladin is a Paladin/Ninja of Kelinahat, the LG Empyreal Lord of spies. Her "Greater Good" is gathering information on possible threats to the well-being of Golarion, and she is willing to go on trust-building missions with sketchy associates because she is playing the long game. And in the process, she is reducing the amount of evil her associates might otherwise commit.That multiclassing seems too... synergistic. Have you considered dipping wizard?
I don't much care for prep casters. Would a one level Psychic dip be a little closer to my usual multiclassing standards that you have grown to know and...roll your eyes at?
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If you are a devout "given superpowers by your goddess" Pharasmin then you can't roll your eyes at Undead like they're a minor annoyance. You have to in PFS unfortunately, but outside of that you can't abide Undead existing. If you do you are not being devout. Undead are an abomination to your goddess. You can't be devout and be okay with Undead.That's true. But you *can* be devout and not have destroying the undead be the top thing on your priority list in the moment. At high levels it is usually the case that your adversary is the Greater Evil.
I'm starting to think that if I was playing a Pharasmin priest (which I haven't) I might start carrying around a pocketful of onyx to reimburse the necromancer so I could kill their undead between encounters without hurting their resources. Probably together with a small lecture on how I was repurchasing and redeeming their soul, and they should now sin no more.
EDIT: Also, the only time I have ever adventured with a Necromancer, it ended up being a good thing, because our adversary was *also* a Necromancer.
... I don't think Pharasma would appreciate one of her followers facilitating the creation of more Undead.
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