Dear reader,
A Magic Item (for the sake of the argument we'll use Armour in our examples) can have up to a +5 bonus, and then have additional special abilities totaling to up to a +10.
If I were to get a special ability that is not noted within it's cost as for instance a +1 bonus but instead +2000 such as Benevolent, would this count to the +10?
And if so, how is the price calculated for upgrading your magic item?
All of the following prices are considered to exclude the masterwork weapon cost.
For instance a +1 Benevolent Armour would have a cost of 3000g.
Now if you wanted to upgrade this to a +2 Benevolent Armour, would this cost you 3000g (4000g for a +2 Armour minus 1000g for a +1 Armour) or would this cost you 5000g (9000g for a +3 Armour minus 4000g for a +1 Armour, +3 Armour because Benevolent is categorized under +1 Weapon Special Abilities.)
Furthermore, when selling this +2 Benevolent Armour when calculating the price you'd say +2, thus 4000g, plus another 2000g for Benevolent results in 6000g for calculating the selling price. But you actually paid 8000g.
Plus, if you wish to determine the price of a Magic Weapon would you then need to take into account when this flat price weapon special ability was added?
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I'm the GM in my current running campaign. For now I've ruled that the Weapon Special Abilities with a flat price are counted at the end of the +10 limit (thus Benevolent would count as a +1 but is placed at the +10 slot, and for instance Glamered would count as a +2 but is placed at the 9 and 10 slot.)
Also when calculating the price for upgrading the Armour I've ruled that first the +X bonus is taken and the price for Benevolent would be added afterwards. Thus going from a +1 Benevolent to a +2 Benevolent would cost 3000g as if you're going from a +1 to a +2. The overall price of the Armour would then be 5000g which coincides with the price used to calculate it's selling price.
So concluding, in my campaign I've ruled the flat price bonusses as not counting when considering the cost of upgrading your Armour but they do count when considering the maximum amount of enchantability of the Armour (namely +10 total.)
But what exactly are the rules surrounding this in RAW or RAI? I have not been able to find any answer to this myself nor with my players.
Cheers,
Sorrol
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Magic armor special abilities that are not enhancement bonus equivalents are not considered in the +10 maximum. They are just a flat cost.
Magic armor special abilities that are enhancement bonus equivalents, do count toward the +10 maximum.
Actual armor enhancements are limited to +5 of the +10 limit.
The total cost of a magic item is the sum of all of the above, plus the cost of the mundane item, plus the cost of masterwork (usually), plus the cost of special materials (mithral) plus the cost of any other non-magical modifications (hidden compartment), plus the cost of any additional embellishments that the PC wants added (gold & gems).
Magic item special abilities are listed in the tables for random treasure generation.
You can have a +5 armor with an additional +5 worth of special abilities, and have every other applicable non-enhancement bonus special ability added on top.
Just to spell it out explicitly, you can also have +1 armor with up to +9 worth of special abilities.
_Ozy_ wrote: Just to spell it out explicitly, you can also have +1 armor with up to +9 worth of special abilities. unless the special abilities have a flat cost in which case there is no limit
vhok wrote: _Ozy_ wrote: Just to spell it out explicitly, you can also have +1 armor with up to +9 worth of special abilities. unless the special abilities have a flat cost in which case there is no limit Yeah, some people get confused because flat cost weapon abilities are included in some charts like '+1 special abilities' on the PRD and think they count towards the +10 bonus limit. This is especially true for armor, where flat bonus abilities make up a good chunk of the listing.
They should really fix the charts.
I was kind of wondering if anyone ever did a compiled list of just the flat cost magic for both armour and weapons, and where they can be found.
_Ozy_ wrote: vhok wrote: _Ozy_ wrote: Just to spell it out explicitly, you can also have +1 armor with up to +9 worth of special abilities. unless the special abilities have a flat cost in which case there is no limit Yeah, some people get confused because flat cost weapon abilities are included in some charts like '+1 special abilities' on the PRD and think they count towards the +10 bonus limit. This is especially true for armor, where flat bonus abilities make up a good chunk of the listing.
They should really fix the charts. Those chart are there for rolling random treasures.
People only need to look the superscript for the price part: "* Add to enhancement bonus on from the Armor and Shield Pricing by Bonus table to determine total price" to see how it work.
+1 bonus +1 bonus +2,000 gp = +2 bonus +2,000 gp = 4,000 gp +2,000 gp = 6,000 gp
Queen Moragan wrote: Magic armor special abilities that are not enhancement bonus equivalents are not considered in the +10 maximum. They are just a flat cost.
Dear Queen Moragan,
To make sure that this is RAW/RAI and not simply your interpretation of the rules... May I ask you where the source of this information/rule is for you?
Cheers,
Sorrol
Not to steal Queen Moragan's thunder or answer for her (my apologies if this offends), but you have to read between the lines a bit to find the rule on this.
Core pg 461 wrote: In general, magic armor protects the wearer to a greater extent than nonmagical armor. Magic armor bonuses are enhancement bonuses, never rise above +5, and stack with regular armor bonuses (and with shield and magic shield enhancement bonuses). All magic armor is also masterwork armor, reducing armor check penalties by 1.
In addition to an enhancement bonus, armor may have special abilities. Special abilities usually count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of an item, but do not improve AC. A suit of armor cannot have an effective bonus (enhancement plus special ability bonus equivalents, including from character abilities and spells) higher than +10. A suit of armor with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.
The bolded sentence and the word "usually" is the key. While it doesn't specifically say that special abilities with a flat cost don't count toward the +10 limit, it is implied. Additionally, how would a +3,750 gp armor ability get counted? +1? +2? +0.9375?
Superscript 1 from Table 15-3 on pg 461 of Core implies the same thing.
Much like adventuring while dead, it isn't specifically spelled out in the rules, but common sense provides a clear answer.
They don't add because if they did, they'd simply be called "+1 Bonus" like the others.
The factor that it's listed differently from other +X Bonus properties should be more than enough of a hint that it follows different rules, and that even higher +X items would result in variable numbers (as you've demonstrated).
For the record though, several options that the OP listed as being flat gold costs have been errata'd to +X Bonus costs, so their example and question is therefore pointless.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Sorrol wrote: Queen Moragan wrote: Magic armor special abilities that are not enhancement bonus equivalents are not considered in the +10 maximum. They are just a flat cost.
Dear Queen Moragan,
To make sure that this is RAW/RAI and not simply your interpretation of the rules... May I ask you where the source of this information/rule is for you?
Cheers,
Sorrol It's simply RAW, as others have pointed out.
Re-read the section on Magic Armor Abilities; the paragraphs before the charts, the charts themselves, and the footnotes for each chart.
Queen Moragan wrote:
It's simply RAW, as others have pointed out.
Re-read the section on Magic Armor Abilities; the paragraphs before the charts, the charts themselves, and the footnotes for each chart. Ah yes you're completely correct I've found it now.
We (my group and I) completely missed the footnote at the pricing table.
* An armor or shield can’t have an enhancement bonus higher than +5. Use these lines to determine price when special abilities that count as additional bonuses are added in.
Taken from the superscript in table 3-1 from Ultimate Equipment.
Thus only that count as additional bonuses.
Thank you all for the help!
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Sorrol wrote: Queen Moragan wrote:
It's simply RAW, as others have pointed out.
Re-read the section on Magic Armor Abilities; the paragraphs before the charts, the charts themselves, and the footnotes for each chart. Ah yes you're completely correct I've found it now.
We (my group and I) completely missed the footnote at the pricing table.
* An armor or shield can’t have an enhancement bonus higher than +5. Use these lines to determine price when special abilities that count as additional bonuses are added in.
Taken from the superscript in table 3-1 from Ultimate Equipment.
Thus only that count as additional bonuses.
Thank you all for the help! This is also how Magic Weapon Special Abilities work too.
To expand on Darksol's comment, Benevolent is no longer a flat +2,000 gp Special Ability but is now a +1 Equivalent Enhancement Bonus.
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