The purpose of this build act as a light skirmishing mobile flying mounted lancer who swoops in taking potshots with his mount's bite/lance.
Ok Skirmishing is different than Lancing.
Lancing= 1 single blast as you ride by with (s)laughter.
Mounted Skirmishing= Full attacks from atop a mount.
Which is it you want?
Why Wayang? Is that set in stone? Carefully Hidden is a Human Trait only.
|
Wayang are popular for this build because they are small and have not strength penality.
A few things worth chewing on.
- Have you considered Sacred Huntmaster? Bane a good inquisition and divine favor are really good for these types of builds.
- Have you considered a dire bat for a nice darkness theme or a Yolubilis Heron because they have more con.
- Mostly flying mounts in my experience are weak combatants (low damage low con) I tent to not fight with them and focus on lancing things as hard as possible.
- There are vestments the boost your challenge by 5 level may be worth getting eventually. But I think this dip is extraneous.
- Mounted blade is cool but can be hard to line up, especially with large creatures.
- Get a menacing amulet for your AC
- Toughness for your mount. 9 con is a bad place to start.
- Iron will is never bad.
- Consider power attack much sooner, and this is one build where furious focus is nice especially when power attack puts you at a -3.
Wayang are popular for this build because they are small and have not strength penality.
A few things worth chewing on.
- Have you considered Sacred Huntmaster? Bane a good inquisition and divine favor are really good for these types of builds.
- Have you considered a dire bat for a nice darkness theme or a Yolubilis Heron because they have more con.
- Mostly flying mounts in my experience are weak combatants (low damage low con) I tent to not fight with them and focus on lancing things as hard as possible.
- There are vestments the boost your challenge by 5 level may be worth getting eventually. But I think this dip is extraneous.
- Mounted blade is cool but can be hard to line up, especially with large creatures.
- Get a menacing amulet for your AC
- Toughness for your mount. 9 con is a bad place to start.
- Iron will is never bad.
- Consider power attack much sooner, and this is one build where furious focus is nice especially when power attack puts you at a -3.
I'm aware of the benefits of wayang but Halfling is still better when you consider Risky Striker feat. Not only does Risky striker recover the Str penalty but it scales up similar to power attack. They also have bonuses to ride and bonuses to their saves. With multi-classing like they are wanting to do Will saves will need all the help they can get. As you mentioned Iron will you must be thinking like I am on a weakened will save.
As much as I love flying mounts PFS will put you into dungeons where flight is not the best option. I tend to favor a Giant Gecko for the spider climb. This allows you to run along walls, ceilings and making creative charge lanes. Also for PFS the Animal Archive lets you buy a war trained Gecko (medium sized) for 140-150gp. So honestly you can ride it for a few Levels before making it a companion. For the first few levels it is tanky enough to take a hit or two. Plus you will have mounted combat to try an negate things directed at the mount. After playing PFS for 8 levels on a mounted beastmaster Ranger using a gecko I can tell you Boon companion is nice but not necessary if you NEED the feat. You can put your mounts feats towards it's survivablity since a "Normal" lancer does the damage with just the lance.
Flight is an option tho just be prepared for small rooms that do not let your mount spread it's wings and fly the distance to be a Charge. Wheeling charge will help tho, I do believe you will need the ability to change directions while flying AND charging. Wing Over will help the mount. But be ready to roll lots of skills every charge. Get familiar with both fly rules and ride rules.
|
|
+1 to halfling and risky striker and mounted halfling! Adaptable luck would be very useful here. Appologies if it seemed like I was assuming you did not know. I was just guessing the OPs rationale.
Riding gecko is a great mount. I hvae been meaning to use one for a while.
A medium flyer should be able to go anywhere a gecko can go. I have heard GMs try the "its wings are too wide thing" but that call is outside the rules.
You must invest in fly for your mount but you should not need to turn more than the 90 allowed by wheeling charge. 2 DC 15 checks. 3 dex + 3 class skill + 2 gryphon fur + 2 ioun stone + 2 ranks gets you most of the way there by level 2.
I play my animal companions recklessly so I have found boon companion and the bodyguard archetype helpful in keeping my mount up and going. But it is very likely you play much smarter than I do.
As for getting a charge I like the escape route option. You only need 15 feet. Charge. Next turn full attack and have the AC walk away 15 feet. Charge again. It works well you most room have a dimension greater than 15 feet in my experience.
+1 to halfling and risky striker and mounted halfling! Adaptable luck would be very useful here. Appologies if it seemed like I was assuming you did not know. I was just guessing the OPs rationale.
Riding gecko is a great mount. I hvae been meaning to use one for a while.
A medium flyer should be able to go anywhere a gecko can go. I have heard GMs try the "its wings are too wide thing" but that call is outside the rules.
You must invest in fly for your mount but you should not need to turn more than the 90 allowed by wheeling charge. 2 DC 15 checks. 3 dex + 3 class skill + 2 gryphon fur + 2 ioun stone + 2 ranks gets you most of the way there by level 2.
I play my animal companions recklessly so I have found boon companion and the bodyguard archetype helpful in keeping my mount up and going. But it is very likely you play much smarter than I do.
As for getting a charge I like the escape route option. You only need 15 feet. Charge. Next turn full attack and have the AC walk away 15 feet. Charge again. It works well you most room have a dimension greater than 15 feet in my experience.
It is ok. I did take it that way but glad you did not mean it in that manner.
But yes Gecko is so much fun and looks goofy. In PFS I used the mini for Warchief Ripnugget and named my gecko Stickfoot. I got the idea from that AP and wanted to do it better.
I honestly wish there was a Gecko Lord. Like the Cavalier. Horse Lord archetype but replace word Horse with Giant Gecko and the Words desert with Jungle or Forrest. I would be in love lol. Too bad tho.
I do not play too recklessly as I enjoy playing my characters and put lots of time into designing them. I am a conservative player who only gets risky when there really isn't another choice that I can see. And even then I tend to think escape and re-approach options.
And yes I have received the Wing span too big or other excuses from DMs on flying mounts in a dungeon, so instead of arguing I just play it safe with the Gecko.
|
|
Heron with armor sits around 18. Which is worse but in the range that is easy to get to and maintain 20+ level. I favor HP over AC because the bad stuff I tend to encounter typically hits on a 3. But both are very reasonable decissions.
- If you grab the anger inquisition you can also get rage and a furious weapon.
- Inquisitors can fate's favor divine favor. Eventually getting divine power.
I would love to do a Direbat, even though they are a worse pet if I could find a way to get a dim light effect on my mount and I. That would give it partial concealment 20%, me partial concealment 50% from my racial trait, and we could be a charging blob of darkness. If there was a Everburning "Palelight Torch" equivalent that would work out better. Too bad there isn't a L0/1 darkness spell. I'd love it if there was darkness but centered on my mount in a 5ft direction. Then the bat would be awesome.
You could accomplish this with Eclipsed Spell. It takes up a feat slot, but effectively gives you a Darkness cantrip. Not sure if it's worth it mechanically, but it'd be very cool thematically...
|
|
A furious weapon won't help him if his mount doesn't have reach--so it depends on whether or not you stay as a hunter. Personally, there's no way I'd do this build without being a hunter (I also wouldn't do it with a Lance, but that's just me).
Because you're taking a Cavalier level, you don't need to worry about Skill Focus (Ride) (this is because armor check penalties won't apply to your ride skill). As a hunter you get plenty of skill points so you'll have plenty to put in Ride. A cracked Magenta Prism Ioun Stone give you a +2 and it's only 800g--that's almost the whole benefit of the feat for only 800g (and if your argument is "but when I get 10 ranks in ride it increases from +3 to +6" then you're already arguing against yourself because if you 10 ranks in ride you're already at a ~17 (10 + 3 (trained) + 3 (dex) + minimum of 1 on a d20) and no other bonuses.
So knowing that, Drill Sergeant is a far superior archetype for you to take as a Fighter because you get a free teamwork feat without giving up any of your bonus feats (and you can still use your bonus first level feat for Mounted Combat). So you get the same amount of feats as a Dragoon, but you're swapping Skill Focus (Ride) for a Teamwork Feat.
Your second ability array is much better. Dropping int is a bust with this build. You'll have tons of class skills and with a 14 int you'll have tons of skills to make use of--for PFS this is king. Also, the brawler level won't help as much as you hope. You're much better off taking charging feats with your normal/bonus feats because if you take a move action to gain feat, then you can't charge.
HERE is a write up I did on my worg-riding PFS character. It'll be helpful for Teamwork feats and, to a lesser extent, gear.
|
|
A furious weapon won't help him if his mount doesn't have reach--so it depends on whether or not you stay as a hunter. Personally, there's no way I'd do this build without being a hunter (I also wouldn't do it with a Lance, but that's just me).
Did you mean menacing? Menacing would require AC reach but rage and furious work fine on the charge build and add a lot of damage.
Because you're taking a Cavalier level, you don't need to worry about Skill Focus (Ride) (this is because armor check penalties won't apply to your ride skill).
Just a warning for the OP this only applies if your mount qualifies as a cavilier mount. You only get to combine the abilities for animals that qualify for both class features. At least that what get from this faq.
All the rest of the advice is really solid and the drill sargent is an interesting recomendation but don't you get more from one level of dragoon and one level of cavilier? Cranking ride and make Indomitable Mount amazing though it may not be optimal.
@claudekennilol nice worg post!
No, if you/your mount charges you both are charging. So if you use a move action you and your mount can't charge as per the most recent clarifications on mounted combat.
No, if you/your mount charges you both are charging. So if you use a move action you and your mount can't charge as per the most recent clarifications on mounted combat.
Thank you. I have been scouring to try and find that information. Will you please link it? I still can not find it myself but heard about it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
|
|
A furious weapon won't help him if his mount doesn't have reach--so it depends on whether or not you stay as a hunter. Personally, there's no way I'd do this build without being a hunter (I also wouldn't do it with a Lance, but that's just me).Did you mean menacing? Menacing would require AC reach but rage and furious work fine on the charge build and add a lot of damage.
Because you're taking a Cavalier level, you don't need to worry about Skill Focus (Ride) (this is because armor check penalties won't apply to your ride skill).Just a warning for the OP this only applies if your mount qualifies as a cavilier mount. You only get to combine the abilities for animals that qualify for both class features. At least that what get from this faq.
All the rest of the advice is really solid and the drill sargent is an interesting recomendation but don't you get more from one level of dragoon and one level of cavilier? Cranking ride and make Indomitable Mount amazing though it may not be optimal.
@claudekennilol nice worg post!
re: furious. >_< Yeah, I meant menacing (obvious from the context, but yeah stupid brain fart).
re: cavalier ACP: Again you're right, even beast rider wouldn't overcome this. I didn't thought about that because most mounted cavaliers are at least riding cavalier mounts.
re: drill seregeant: Drill sergeant picks up tactician at level 2 (instead of level 1 like cavalier). I'm not sure what you mean by "don't you get more from one level of dragoon and one level of cavalier?" If you mean something along the lines of "doesn't that mean that tactician stacks?" then the answer is no. You get two separate tactician abilities just like a multiclassed life oracle/cleric has two separate channel abilities.
And thanks ^_^
|
|
I meant if you take 1 level of dragoon you get mounted combat, skill focus ride. Then one level of cavalier for order, challenge, and tactician.
With Drill Sargent you need 2 levels to get tactician (replaces bravery). No skill focus, challenge, or order. So it seems you get less from drill Sargent than taking 2 one level dips.
|
|
Watch the BAB requirement on outflank with the inquisitor. Now early access unfortunatly.
Remember to factor casting where it matters. Inquisitors have a great out of combat list. They also get access to herosim that can be modified my encouraging. Along with spells like see invis and align weapon which can help you out of tough spots.
Hunters have things like longstrider, magic fang, early resist energy, Cheetah's Sprint etc.
Here are my thoughts over all. Inqusitors make great lancers. They can buff their attack really well, and are great out of combat. When you are making a single attack a round you want it to be as accurate as possible otherwise 2 or 3 bad rolls and you did nothing for whole fight.
Hunters make great use of there animal companions especially using share spell. Though there is a case for the sacred huntmaster sharing spells as well. Early access to outflank is amazing. Hunters can switch between skirmishing and lancing really well especially with a mount with reach.
These are 2 of the best options for animal companions. Pick one build it have fun then if you like it enough build the other. You will be happy with either and they play very similarly.
For getting started quickly my build looked like this I have had fun so far at every level and it is well balanced for AC, Saves, Damage, and out of combat fun. I'm sharing this with you to give you an idea of a build you that works in PFS:
Dragoon 1/Sacred Huntmaster X Heavy Armor Halfling
1 - Dragoon Skill Focus (ride), Mounted Combat, Ride by Attack
2 - Inquisitor - Flying AC most of my wealth to mule backs
3 - Spirited Charge
4 - Escape Route
5 - Power Attack
7 - Extra rage (anger inqusition) Sacred Legion
9 - Indominable mount/risky striker (undecided) (retrain domain to rage for half inquisitor level to damage a few times a day)
10 - Shake it off
11 - Horn of the criosphynx
This build differs from yours as I did not try to do both a charge build and an outflank build so you are tackeling a hard problem than I did. It might be worth get one up and running asap (charge or outflank first) then focus on the other.
Watch the BAB requirement on outflank with the inquisitor. Now early access unfortunatly.
Remember to factor casting where it matters. Inquisitors have a great out of combat list. They also get access to herosim that can be modified my encouraging. Along with spells like see invis and align weapon which can help you out of tough spots.
Hunters have things like longstrider, magic fang, early resist energy, Cheetah's Sprint etc.
Here are my thoughts over all. Inqusitors make great lancers. They can buff their attack really well, and are great out of combat. When you are making a single attack a round you want it to be as accurate as possible otherwise 2 or 3 bad rolls and you did nothing for whole fight.
Hunters make great use of there animal companions especially using share spell. Though there is a case for the sacred huntmaster sharing spells as well. Early access to outflank is amazing. Hunters can switch between skirmishing and lancing really well especially with a mount with reach.
These are 2 of the best options for animal companions. Pick one build it have fun then if you like it enough build the other. You will be happy with either and they play very similarly.
For getting started quickly my build looked like this I have had fun so far at every level and it is well balanced for AC, Saves, Damage, and out of combat fun. I'm sharing this with you to give you an idea of a build you that works in PFS:
Dragoon 1/Sacred Huntmaster X Heavy Armor Halfling
1 - Dragoon Skill Focus (ride), Mounted Combat, Ride by Attack
2 - Inquisitor - Flying AC most of my wealth to mule backs
3 - Spirited Charge
4 - Escape Route
5 - Power Attack
7 - Extra rage (anger inqusition) Sacred Legion
9 - Indominable mount/risky striker (undecided) (retrain domain to rage for half inquisitor level to damage a few times a day)
10 - Shake it off
11 - Horn of the criosphynxThis build differs from yours as I did not try to do both a charge build and an outflank build so you are tackeling a hard problem...
Are you using Escape route instead of Wheeling charge?
Honestly I would make your 9th level feat Indomitable Mount and change Horn of the Cyrosphinx to Risky striker. Since you are retraining domain to Rage at that level. Double damage boosters don't seem necessary at the same level.
But I do like the build!
|
|
Yes, because I often use the first round to buff (divine favor, align weapon, see invis etc) I can almost always find a good position from which to charge. Escape route is also available via bonus teamwork feats where wheeling charge is not so some of the decision is just that the opportunity to take escape route came up first.
That was what I was thinking I forgot to put risky striker up at level 11.
I like the build. AC, Saves, damage, good utility, mobility decent number of skills, adaptive luck as great, and good perception. It's what I like in builds.
Yes, because I often use the first round to buff (divine favor, align weapon, see invis etc) I can almost always find a good position from which to charge. Escape route is also available via bonus teamwork feats where wheeling charge is not so some of the decision is just that the opportunity to take escape route came up first.
That was what I was thinking I forgot to put risky striker up at level 11.
I like the build. AC, Saves, damage, good utility, mobility decent number of skills, adaptive luck as great, and good perception. It's what I like in builds.
Do you have a copy of the spell list you used? I might make this as my backup for the campaign I am playing a brawler in. Like I can guess a couple of the spells you used via the post above saying (divine favor, align weapon, see invis) but I would not mind getting the full list. So it doesn't seem we are hijacking the thread perhaps in a Privet message? The build looks like a lot of fun.