hi peps
i had this idea of getting druids to turn into magical beasts (using Beast Shape III and IV) and i'm surprised that they haven't got an arhetype that lets them get an evolution pool, rangers get one - Primal Hunter
any thoughts about how is all this going to stack up?
ok starting
Biomancer(Druid Arhetype)
Like a Druid but less creature boardspam and more magical body modification.
Hit Die:d8
Skills:add Knolege(Arcana) to your class skills and use it for knowing if you can Wildshape into magical beasts as with normal animals.
{This is for flavour, but also so the Biomancer could wildshape into magical beasts, i like the flavour of a druid who is like a wizard}
Class Features:
Magical Wildshape(Su):a Biomancer can, at 6-th level use Wildshape to turn into a Medium or Small magical beast, this ability functions as Beast Shape III.At 8-th level a Biomancer can use Wildshape to transform into a Large or Tiny magical beast, this ability functions as Beast Shape IV.This ability otherwise functions as and alters Wildshape {nothing really OP about Beast Shape IV}
Magical Beast Friend:gained at level 1, if an animal companion granted by your Biomancer levels ever gains centience(through Awaken, stat increaces, etc.), it can choose to remain at your side, so that it is still an Animal Companion, it cannot gain class levels while in your service but still enjoys the benefits of being a sentient creature.
Metashape:at 5-th level, you gain the ability to add one of the listed Metashapes to your Wildshape ability, you can expend an additional daily use of your Wildshape class feature.
Armor Metashape:add a +3 per 5 Biomancer class levels of Natural Armor Bonus to your AC, unloks at level 5.
Movement Metashape:add a movement type of another creature:
levels 5-10 Swim(30), Burrow(15), Fly(30)[clubsy]
levels 10-15 Swim(40), Burrow(25), Fly(40)[average]
levels 15-20 Swim(60), Burrow(40), Fly(60)[good]
Attack Metashape: add an attack of another creature:
levels 5-10 1d8 primary attack OR 2 1d4 secondary attacks
levels 10-15 1d10 primary attack OR 2 1d6 secondary attacks
levels 15-20 2d6 primary attack OR 2 1d8 secondary attacks
please comment
Under Magical Beast Friend, you have a misspelling as "centience."
thanks!
A bit of creation backstory: the idea was born when i found out that druids cant wildshape into magical beasts, at the time, i was found of an alhemist multiclassing arhetype - the beastbrewer. Later, i got bored with it and went seeking on. Then i got druid into my interests.
Long story short i wanted to have a druid arhetype and there werent any that i liked, so i made this one.
So the idea of this arhetype is: get the ability to turn into magicly superior beasts and customize your wildshapes like spells by wizards
Biomancer(Druid Arhetype)
Like a Druid but less creature boardspam and more magical body modification.
Hit Die:d8
Skills:add Knolege(Arcana) to your class skills and use it for knowing if you can Wildshape into magical beasts as with normal animals.
{This is for flavour, but also so the Biomancer could wildshape into magical beasts, i like the flavour of a druid who is like a wizard}
Class Features:
Magical Wildshape(Su):a Biomancer can, at 6-th level use Wildshape to turn into a Medium or Small magical beast, this ability functions as Beast Shape III.At 8-th level a Biomancer can use Wildshape to transform into a Large or Tiny magical beast, this ability functions as Beast Shape IV.This ability otherwise functions as and alters Wildshape {nothing really OP about Beast Shape IV}
Magical Beast Friend:gained at level 1, if an animal companion granted by your Biomancer levels ever gains centience(through Awaken, stat increaces, etc.), it can choose to remain at your side, so that it is still an Animal Companion, it cannot gain class levels while in your service but still enjoys the benefits of being a sentient creature.
Metashape:at 5-th level, you gain the ability to add one of the listed Metashapes to your Wildshape ability, you can expend an additional daily use of your Wildshape class feature.
Armor Metashape:add a +3 per 5 Biomancer class levels of Natural Armor Bonus to your AC, unloks at level 5.
Movement Metashape:add a movement type of another creature:
levels 5-10 Swim(30), Burrow(15), Fly(30)[clubsy]
levels 10-15 Swim(40), Burrow(25), Fly(40)[average]
levels 15-20 Swim(60), Burrow(40), Fly(60)[good]
Attack Metashape: add an attack of another creature:
levels 5-10 1d8 primary attack OR 2 1d4 secondary attacks
levels 10-15 1d10 primary attack OR 2 1d6 secondary attacks
levels 15-20 2d6 primary attack OR 2 1d8 secondary attacks
All features together replace or alter:
wildshape
spontanious summon nature ally
a thousand faces
Can you break down what features replace or alter what?
Does Magical Beast Friend need to be a thing? What's the current ruling on it? (I've got a Hunter with an Int-3 tiger in my game...)
I don't know what this means...
Metashape:at 5-th level, you gain the ability to add one of the listed Metashapes to your Wildshape ability, you can expend an additional daily use of your Wildshape class feature.
It would help a lot in understanding your intent if you study wording of similar classes and archetypes and reworded your ideas! For instance, should Armor Metashape be worded like this or something different:
"Whenever you select this metashape, you gain +3 natural armor bonus to your AC. This bonus increases by +3 every 5th level thereafter (max +12 to AC at 20th level)."
Can you break down what features replace or alter what?
1.Does Magical Beast Friend need to be a thing? What's the current ruling on it? (I've got a Hunter with an Int-3 tiger in my game...)
2.I don't know what this means...
Metashape:at 5-th level, you gain the ability to add one of the listed Metashapes to your Wildshape ability, you can expend an additional daily use of your Wildshape class feature.3.It would help a lot in understanding your intent if you study wording of similar classes and archetypes and reworded your ideas! For instance, should Armor Metashape be worded like this or something different:
"Whenever you select this metashape, you gain +3 natural armor bonus to your AC. This bonus increases by +3 every 5th level thereafter (max +12 to AC at 20th level)."
1. Because Awaken is really great, and because it's a magical beast creating effect
[QWOTE="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/awaken"]An awakened animal gets 3d6 Intelligence, +1d3 Charisma, and +2 HD. Its type becomes magical beast (augmented animal). An awakened animal can’t serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount.
[/QWOTE]
(on the tiger with 3+ Int, check this FAQ:http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lc1y )
2.The intent here is to allow wildshape be changed by a druid like a wizard changes and customizes his spells using metamagic.
the sentence means that whenether you apply a metashape described later you expend an extra use of wildshape in much the same way a wizard adds metamagic at the cost of increacing the spell's level
3.thanks for that i can get confusing even to myself at times:
i'll change it to:
"Whenever you select to add this metashape to a wildshape use, you gain a +3 natural armor bonus to your AC. This bonus increases by +3 every 5th level thereafter (to a maximum +12 natural armor bonus to AC at 20th level)."
1. Because Awaken is really great, and because it's a magical beast creating effect
[QWOTE="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/awaken"]
An awakened animal gets 3d6 Intelligence, +1d3 Charisma, and +2 HD. Its type becomes magical beast (augmented animal). An awakened animal can’t serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount.
[/QWOTE]
(on the tiger with 3+ Int, check this FAQ:http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lc1y )2.The intent here is to allow wildshape be changed by a druid like a wizard changes and customizes his spells using metamagic.
the sentence means that whenether you apply a metashape described later you expend an extra use of wildshape in much the same way a wizard adds metamagic at the cost of increacing the spell's level3.thanks for that i can get confusing even to myself at times:
i'll change it to:
"Whenever you select to add this metashape to a wildshape use, you gain a +3 natural armor bonus to your AC. This bonus increases by +3 every 5th level thereafter (to a maximum +12 natural armor bonus to AC at 20th level)."
1. I'll have to check the FAQ you mention (linkified). I was partly following PFS guidelines when I urged the player to give her tiger her 3rd level stat bonus in Int, given how smart she wanted to have the tiger be.
{EtA: NO, NOT linkified. Can you give me a good link for the FAQ?}
2. OK, you now have far clearer wording. Although it means that you can't possibly use metashaping before 6th level, right? (Isn't that when you gain a 2nd use of wildshape/day?)
And do you get all 3 forms of metashaping for free, or do you have to pick one at certain levels? (Maybe 7th, 11th, and 15th?)
I'm tempted to work on wording a bit more. How does this sound?
"Whenever you use Wild Shape, you may expend an extra use of Wild Shape for that day and give your animal form one greater than normal ability, called a Metashape."
3. Actually, "Whenever you choose to add this metashape to a Wild Shape you take, you gain a +3 natural armor bonus to your AC. This bonus increases by +3 at 10th level, and every 5th level thereafter (to a maximum +12 natural armor bonus to AC at 20th level)."
(Is English not your native language? I made mine confusing through editing, and I don't have that excuse!) So now you get to edit the others!
4. But you asked for feed-back on the archetype, and I still can't give it. These are powerful abilities. What do you lose, and when?
1. Link later
2. One polisher is good, but 2 are great
3. I like it, you research at certain levels getting an extra option
4. Yes, i'm from Ukraine
5. Hm, i want the new stuf to be at the aqwierment rate of wizards, so maybe wildsh. at 2-nd lvl 3-d? At what level are metamagic feats used by wizards?
6. Wanna look at my other druid arhetype idea thread? Its post-post-apocaliptic.
Metamagic feats are used whenever
(a) they burn the feats; metamagic is NOT part of the class.
(b) they can cast spells sufficiently high enough.
It's a completely different kind of mechanic, in other words.
I think getting a new ability at the levels I suggested makes sense, but look at the class. I also think that you need to give something up for this, if it's an archetype... You thought that replacing Spontaneous Casting & a Thousand Faces was good enough. I don't think so. Maybe have it replace Nature Bond and Wild Empathy? In any case, I don't think it alters Wild Shape as such.
You could make these a set of feats, of course, like metamagic feats, in which case druids could pick them when they wanted. The prerequisite would be "Wild Shape class feature." However, then the scaling that you want should be reserved for additional feats in a feat tree. "Improved Metashape."
I mean that wildshape is a supernatural, yet spell-replicating ability.
On a) i dont like making these abilties feats - the druid IS feat-starved, but, you could have them get them like a fighters bonus feats... Hey, thats a great idea! Take away some stuff and give wildsh. options as feats: wanna be a vermin druid? Get vermin shape as a bonus feat! Wanna be a tank with high AC? Get armored shape feat!
Really, lots of thematic wld.sh. feats!
b) i mean when do wizards start using metamagic feats actively, lvl? Dont forget, wizards get 4 bonus feats over 20 lvls, so theyre less feat starved than druids.
As a balancing factor, we can always add diminished spellcasting - "if you like wildshape so much, you wont miss the spellslots, you dont have much time to cast anyway". Also, sp. SNA is 1/4 of their power, it makes druids such good casters, i want to keep w.empathy to affect any crature he can turn into to fit better with whatever theme the player wants.
Maybe add a evolution pool somehow, hunters get one archetype that does this - primal hunter, why shouldnt druids?
I've got to read the thread titles more closely. I swear that I read that as "bromancing druid/wizard" instead of "biomancing".
I strongly think these druids shouldn't get an animal companion (Nature Bond) on top of all of this. I was suggesting replacing Wild Empathy, too, because this druid is NOT turning into a natural creature -- no, into an aberration, in fact, with an abnormally thick pelt or monstrously long claws or whatever. It wouldn't surprise me if the Biomancer class had as a class feature a racial trait from the ARG, Unnatural, that would read something like this...
Unnatural: Biomancers unnerve normal animals, and train to defend themselves against the inevitable attacks from such creatures. They take a –4 penalty on all Charisma-based skill checks to affect creatures of the animal type, and receive a +4 dodge bonus to AC against animals. Animals' starting attitude toward biomancers is one step worse than normal.
Believe it or not, that's considered positive overall -- a "feature" that races have to pay Race Points for. Obviously, Handle Animal would NOT be a class skill for this archetype or class! And I don't know about Knowledge (arcana) as a replacement -- that generally concerns dragons and such. The class skill I think of would be Knowledge (dungeoneering).
~~~~
Honestly, losing Nature Bond, Wild Empathy, Woodland Stride, Trackless Step -- in short, any feature not concerning shapeshifting -- in exchange for evolutions might make sense. (A Thousand Faces, for instance, does concern shapeshifting, and so should be retained, IMHO.) Be sure to base your list of Biomancer evolutions on Summoner evolutions, though. Your set is quite powerful in comparison.
In fact, I'm thinking that a carefully considered hybrid class, a combination of Druid & Summoner, would be the way to go. Keep any features that both classes have in common. Any feature that the Druid gets to benefit shapeshifting or the Summoner gets to benefit an eidolon, the Biomancer gets to benefit their own Wild Shape. Since Summoners get an eidolon at first level, the Biomancer will get Wild Shape then. And so on. (And do use "Wild Shape" as the name for the Biomancer's shapeshifting ability, because feats have it as a prerequisite.)
OTOH, ruthlessly eliminate features of the parent classes that don't contribute to biomancing. Feature by feature, for both classes, ask yourself, "Does this feature help the Biomancer wild shape into bizarre and useful... wild shapes?" Remember that you have to pay for the class features of the other class that you're combining.
Figure out how to deal with the different spell casting. Will a Biomancer be a prepared caster with the Druid spell progression? Or a spontaneous caster with the Summoner progression? (My pick.) Does a Biomancer get both spell lists like Hunters do? Do they get a spontaneous Summon Monster instead of the Druid's spontaneous Summon Nature's Ally? (If they prepare spells.) Or do they get the Summoner's extra-long Summon Monster feature? (If all spells are spontaneous.) Spell casting is likely to be the worst problem with creating such a hybrid class.
Still, I hope you have fun with this! :)
I've got to read the thread titles more closely. I swear that I read that as "bromancing druid/wizard" instead of "biomancing".
*casts Suggestion*
I SUGGEST that somebody(your body) needs to compensate and post a suggestion or give feedback.
No ep for you!The feats i like more,they remind me of alch. Discoveries.
So,concluding all in a draft:
{suggestions on name?preferebly magical beast themed}(Druid Arhetype)
Some druids care not only for animals,but also for magical beasts,and strive to help them find their place in the ecosystem.They have also mastered,akin to shapechange shool wizards,the art of modifying their forms to be clad in chitinius or bone armor,to be avian or fishlike,to be much more deadlier with visious claws or barbed stingers,which the original creature migh not posses.They walk close to wizards but are still *insert name*.
Hit Die:d8
Class Skills:add Khnolege(Arcana) to the list of class skills.{its used to identify magical beasts}
Magical empathy:in addition to anm.,a *name* can also affect mag.bts. and abbetns.,that were created by magical means.This ability replaces wild empathy.
Wild shape:for *name* wild shape counts at +2 effective druid lvl,he can never shape into an elemental,but can turn into a mag.bst
Continnextpost
At 2-nd level, wildshape lasts for minutes/level, at 4-th level, it lasts for hours/level. This feature replaces Spontanious Summon Natures Ally
Naturalistic bond: a druid can never call an animal companion, but instead a familiar, for the purpose of determining its abilities, *name*levels=wizard levels. This feature alters nature bond.
Metashapes: at 2-nd level, and at each next even level thereafter a *name* recieves a metashapes - powerful enhansments to wildshapes that allow for cosiderably better shapes. Only one Metashape can be applied to a wildshape use at a time, unless the improved metashape, greater metashape, or absolute metashape are taken.
What do you think? I wanted them to be more like alhemist discoveries.
Accepting propositions for Metashapes.
So... Probably everybody is a vermin. Why? Because everybody on these forums is immune to mind-affecting suggestions
<Shapeshifting back from vermin to humanoid.>
Part of your problem is that your post is hard to read. Are you posting from a phone? Can you get to a computer or tablet and type things out and spell check before you post? I'm sorry to be rough on you, but you deserve comments, and the typing is a barrier.
Also, you need to study some of the archetypes in the Advanced Player's Guide, preferably as posted on Paizo's PRD. The point is to figure out form and terminology.
For instance, if it's an archetype, you don't need to repeat anything you're not changing, like (in this case) the hit die. OTOH, you desperately need to figure out what the druid is giving up, step by step.
And then we get back to basics: Go find actual magical beasts in the Bestiary Index and look carefully at their stats. (Hint: You can set the Creature Type filter to magical beast.) If you want a druid who can shapeshift into magical beasts, they're NOT going to be Wild Shaping into aberrations --
to be much more deadlier with visious claws or barbed stingers,which the original creature migh not posses.
My big comment is that I think you need to figure out what you want.
No, my big comment is to apologize for being surly. I am sooo tired right now. It's a great idea, no -- pair of separate ideas.
Yeah posting from phone, its an old nokia, and it has a maximum of 1016 symbols in any textbox, i'll format as soon as i can.
Just struck me - by polymorphing into vermin you dont get immunity to mind-affecting stuff much in the same way you dont gain an elementals immunity to bleed.
I really need a good name for this arhetype!
Anyboy prepared suggestion today?
Wild-shaping into magical beasts is a very simple idea. Powerful, costly, but simple. I'm not sure off-hand how you constrain the list of creatures a druid can wild-shape into, but it will end up as a list of specific creatures. With their abilities. I'm drawing a blank on a title, I'm afraid.
Meta-shaping, adding abilities to an existing form, is complex. Also powerful & costly, of course. But now you're looking at wild-shaping into aberrations, IMHO. "Biomancer" seems quite fine to me as a name for a class/archetype that could do this.