Hi, Indy! Does the limit on not taking Small if you have +2 Str make more sense now?
If so, how do you feel about the armor/load penalties not being removed?
Ciaran, where do goblins get "Fast"? Not in the ARG, that I saw; they simply don't get Slow. Can you link it?
Not that I object to Chasers getting "Fast," mind you, one bit. I'm assuming that they would have to replace Emissary for it? (As in -- they could not also get Sprinter on top!)
I see it now. I thought that small races automatically had a speed of 20, and for goblins it was in turn increased to 30. Plus, if you look HERE they have a movement trait called fast movement. Hm. Strange.
Fast: Goblins are fast for their size, and have a base speed of 30 feet.
The explanation that going at Speed 30 feet is "fast for their size" is why I originally reduced Small races to Speed 20 ft automatically. And that does look like "Small" should reduce base speed to 20 ft, and "Fast" should not have a speed requisite. Except that that's not how they wrote those traits!
So what are you thinking now about Small dogs staying at base 30 ft unless they also have Slow?
Or about Chasers replacing Emissary with Fast, and getting +10 feet to Speed all of the time? (Again, replacing Emissary is to prevent gaining Sprinter, too.)
Finally, I've given up on posting my doc here. I'm looking for a place other than google docs to post it -- I'd rather not get a google account if that means giving google personal info to set up the account. Unfortunately, I'm not hearing of any alternatives at present.
I'd trust google, it works fine and they won't use your info or anything
I keep hearing about Yahoo data breaches -- why not Google?
Because Google can actually run a company and keep their users safe. Yahoo are idiots if I'm being honest, Google hasn't been breached ever as far as I know
It's just that if I were interested in data munching, they've got a big neon sign over their headquarters with an arrow pointing down and the words, "Good eats!" But... I'm getting nothing but encouragement to try it.
Google just has really strong defenses against stuff like that. Although you can use dropbox if you don't like google
What's dropbox? {I almost typed "dropdox," and thought, "No, don't be unkind like that to a nice guy!"}
It's a file sharing website and if you have Microsoft word you can upload the word doc for people to download, it's not great but it does work, you need an account but you just need to give an email address to make it, I use it for distributing videogame mods make
ahhh, thank you!
Yeah no problem, I'm happy to have helped
I use drop box and like it, but it does take a couple of extra clicks for a reader too see your doc.
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I... have a drop box account. Do I understand the software? No. It's new. It's icky. By definition.
But my current write-up of Dogfolk is up, in all of its glory. Now the trick is learning how to share it with you all! Is the link good enough?
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I don't think that link worked. It's the Dogfolk doc. Please take a look & comment.
I want to throw dogfolk into a game real soon.
Yep, dat first link didn't work very good but teh second link works just perfectly fine. :)
Good to see some free adapted Dogfolk stuff to Golarion out there. ;)
DOGFOLK DESCRIPTION
I like that you spent some time working out so much information, but I think in some cases you get too specific. There is a bunch of setting specific info that could go into a third section (section 1: overview, section 2: racial traits, section3: dogfolk in golarion). The same goes for the bits about marrying for life and fertility. A player will make up their own mind about a lot of that stuff anyways, and I don't think it needs so much description in an overview. As far as marrying for life, that doesn't seem very doglike to me. Maybe you could say that it is so in larger communities where they develop more of a lawful-aligned culture, but in smaller communities they function more as individuals and are not normally lawful. I also think you devote too much space on the shame of mutts. Shorten it up, maybe develop it in section 3.
STANDARD TRAITS
-BREED
I don't like the way this is presented, and yet I don't have a solution for you. I know how it works, because I helped you with it, but I think this official write up needs to be more clear.
-MED vs SMALL
I think this needs to be presented differently, because five of the nine breeds can be small, three must be small, and three cannot be small. A GM that does not allow alternate racial traits will effective disallow three breeds, which I don't think you want. Choosing medium or small should be part of a primary racial trait.
-EMMISARY and SOCIABLE: I just don't think these traits embody something that all dogs have - just the ones that humans relate to the most. I think that a former servitor race that came into their own would be less specialized in pleasing others. Also, removing these two would bring your 12 RP down the to standard 10 RP. These should be alternative traits, or maybe go to the charmer.
BREEDS TRAITS
-Chaser: I don't see why they need darkvision. This is essentially a greyhound or a similar breed. Quick to react, swift of foot, and... sees in the dark? I think darkvision should be removed.
-Ratter: No other small race gets Weapon Finesse for free, and I don't think these guys should either. I'm sure there is a better option. A bonus against Vermin doesn't fit either. Ratters chase down rodents, not insects.
-Mutt: Remove the bit about the shame of being a mutt. It doesn't belong here. I think you are too free with the bonus feats. Its got a Con bonus, bonus to diseases and the like, and then the Toughness feat. That adds up to an awful lot. What about giving mutts the lucky trait? +1 to all saves fitting IMHO.
-Herder: Instead of your custom skill bonus, I recommend a simple bonus on Handle Animal checks. That is almost literally what herding dogs do.
-Guarder: I think darkvision fits well here, but not the abjuration bonus. I think Hardy would be a good fit, but thats too many RP. What about Fearless?
-Charmer: why are they resistant to poison?
I don't have much more to add other than what Ciaran Barnes said, I'm afraid. I think you should have all the functional racial traits be 3 RP without odd math being needed so that it's a net 3 RP.
I have to say, I love the lore behind Dogfolk. I really think Dogfolk should have their own tongue, as useless as it would be in most situations considering this is a homebrew.
I also think the languages should be limited somehow. I don't feel like Dogfolk would be able to learn that many new languages with high int. I'd stop at 3 or 4.
I'm not sure I like Alertness, but I don't really have a replacement. I'd say either Self Sufficient or Iron Will/Lighting Reflexes/Great Fortitude depending on race. They already have Eternal Hope, so giving a bigger bonus to saves is just going to unbalance the race.
Breeds
Attacker gets Relentless, but I'm not sure if I have a bias of hating Overrun attempts or what, but I feel like this should be Bullrush + Reposition. I feel the attacker would try to move an opponent before trying to run over them.
I think Darkvision is a bit much for Chaser, seeing as Dogfolk inherently get Low Light Vision and Blind Fight. The race makes sense, but there is a bit too much going on.
Ratter. Love it. I'm not sure they would get Weapon Finesse "lore wise" but it fits with the crunch of the race.
I might drop the +2 Con for Mutt. I don't think anyone is going to pick up +2 Con for a race that gives "meh" bonuses compared to the rest.
Herder might do better with just a +1 Handle Animal Check, but I do like the fluff and I guess can help with trying to forcibly move animals or spot them with a perception check?
No notes on the rest. I do have one request in helping create a breed that is the original +2 Str/Cha, -2 Wis or -2 Int.
- Dogfolk Barbarians add +2.5 feet to the distance the barbarian can charge or run through rough terrain. (This option has no effect unless the barbarian has selected it twice possesses increments evenly divisible by 5; a distance of 12.5 feet is effectively the same as a distance of 10 feet, for example.) (Catfolk)
- Dogfolk Bards add +1 to the total number of bardic performance rounds per day. (Half-Elf/Half-Orc/Gnome)
- Dogfolk Cleric add +½ to positive energy spell healing, including cure spells. (Reverse Hobgoblin)
- Dogfolk Druids add a +¼ competence bonus on the saving throws of the druid’s animal companion or add +⅓ to the druid’s natural armor bonus when using wild shape. (Halfling or Half-Elf/Half-Orc)
- Dogfolk Fighters add +1 to the fighter’s CMD when resisting two combat maneuvers of the character’s choice. (Human)
- Dogfolk Monks add +¼ point to the monk‘s ki pool. (Human)
- Dogfolk Paladins may choose form any core race FCB.
- Dogfolk Rangers add +1 hit point or +1 skill rank to the ranger’s animal companion. If the ranger ever replaces his companion, the new companion gains these bonus hit points or skill ranks. (Human)
- Dogfolk Rogues gain +1/6 of a new rogue talent. (Human)
- Dogfolk Sorcerers add one spell known from the sorcerer spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the sorcerer can cast. (Human)
- Dogfolk Wizards add +½ to the wizard’s effective class level for the purposes of determining the familiar’s natural armor adjustment, Intelligence, and special abilities. (Halfling)
I'm trying to favor human, but anything about Speed, Animal Companions, or helping healing wins out.
I'll do more later, I have to head out now. Someone else can take Occult Classes, I'm going to try to do Base + Hybrid + Psionics + Path of War.
I agree with SorrySleeping about the attacker's combat maneuvers, but I would go with trip (like a wolf) and reposition
I'm thinking through everyone's comments -- thank you for them! I'm mostly working on distilling changes into my doc, esp. for the flavor text, including moving the Golarion stuff to the back -- thanks, Ciaran. Same with the text for Breed & Size & whatnot: I'm editing.
I'm willing to yank Sociable, but not Emissary. It does get the race down to 11 rp, which has precedent.
Finally, I'm giving all of the functional traits a fresh look, now that I've been away for a few days, especially Herder.
I don't have much more to add other than what Ciaran Barnes said, I'm afraid. I think you should have all the functional racial traits be 3 RP without odd math being needed so that it's a net 3 RP.
I'm very sorry. Unfortunately, it won't work simply because chasers are NOT scenthounds. They have to, absolutely must, replace Non-Visual Awareness. Maybe I need to explain it more clearly in the doc. They don't, however, need to get darkvision.
SorrySleeping, does a bonus for Trip & Reposition for Attackers sound all right to you? It's fine with me.
Ciaran, I'm going to stick with Weapon Finesse for ratters. Maybe it will make Indy feel better about the "no Str bonus if small" restriction that's still there; mostly, it's how I see them. As for vermin... Hey, rats are vermin! Oh, no, they're not. Drat it! I'll work on it.
As for Guarders, can't any dogfolk get an advantage in casting? Any of them? Wah! Abjuration isn't even that powerful a school. Can you put the reason for your distaste into words?
SorrySleeping, thanks for the FCBs. Whoever takes the occult classes, it won't be me. I know nothing about them.
I do have one request in helping create a breed that is the original +2 Str/Cha, -2 Wis or -2 Int.
LOL, that is the point of the thread. I'm sorry I've gotten carried away. (Partly, I admit, I had hoped for a brief minute that you were starting to see the appeal of varying the bonuses.)
Are you still looking at the version presented here? Are there lap dogs AND show dogs?
So ratters... what could go in there? Any time I think of them I automatically think of Wee Man - a Scotty owned by some friends. He is very friendly and playful, but also has an uncontrollable urge to murder any and all rodents that dare to enter his yard. This might require some custom traits. How about an attack bonus against creatures that are smaller than them? Maybe to play up the small size, a trait granting a bonus on Escape Artist checks, or to AC when moving through threatened areas, or reduced penalties when squeezing?
I disagree with SorrySleeping on removing the Con bonus for mutts, but it got me thinking that piling on traits to make them even more durable doesn't help much a playable as much as you might think. I think you should have a traits that do not necessarily make them tougher (or maybe just one). You could use some trait that could appeal to he different types of character, such as martials, casters, and skill monkeys. You don't need to cover every base, but a good race should not automatically pigeonhole characters into one type of character. Dwarves are another Con based race, and they have can do well as both martials and casters.
I haven't thought of what to do with the guarder yet, but a Cha and abjuration bonus just screams spontaneous spellcaster at me, but the flavor of the breed leans towards a martial class. I think thats the problem.
Of course some can have caster-oriented traits, its just not something I would personally do. :)
I forgot about Wolves, Trip + Reposition sounds the best. I'm also staying out of Occult because I've never read them and don't exactly understand them.
I'm looking for an idea of the current pick-a-breed +2 Str/Cha, -2 mental, I'm just not sure what it would get.
- Dogfolk Alchemist add one extract formula from the alchemist’s list to the character’s formulae book. This formula must be at least one level below the highest formulae level the alchemist can create. (Human)
- Dogfolk Cavalier add +¼ to the cavalier’s banner bonus. (Human)
- Dogfolk Gunslinger add +¼ point to the gunslinger’s grit points. (Human)
- Dogfolk Inquisitors add one spell known from the inquisitor spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the inquisitor can cast. (Human)
- Dogfolk Magus gains +⅙ of a new magus arcana. (Elf)
- Dogfolk Oracle add one spell known from the oracle spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the oracle can cast. (Human)
- Dogfolk Summoners add +1 hit point or +1 skill rank to the summoner’s eidolon. (Human)
- Dogfolk Vigilante gain 1/6 of a new social talent. (Halfling)
- Dogfolk Witches add 1 skill rank to the witch’s familiar. If the half-orc ever replaces this familiar, the new familiar gains these bonus skill ranks. (Half-Orc)
- Dogfolk Arcanists add +2.5 feet to the distance the arcanist can move when using the dimensional slide exploit, up to a maximum of 1.5 times the usual distance she could move at her given level. This option has no effect unless the arcanist has selected it twice (or possesses increments evenly divisible by 5); a distance of 12.5 feet is effectively the same as a distance of 10 feet, for example. (Catfolk)
- Dogfolk Bloodragers add 1 foot to the bloodrager’s base speed. In combat, this only has an effect for every five increases in base speed. This bonus stacks with the bloodrager’s fast movement class feature, and applies under the same conditions and that feature. (Elf)
- Dogfolk Brawler add 1 foot to the brawler’s base speed. In combat, this has an effect only for every five increases in the brawler’s base speed. (Elf)
- Dogfolk Hunters add 1 hit point or skill rank to the hunter’s animal companion. If the hunter replaces his animal companion, the new animal companion gains these bonus skill ranks. (Human or Half-Orc)
- Dogfolk Investigator add one extract formula from the investigator’s formula list to the formula book. This formula must be at least 1 formula level below the highest level the investigator can create. (Human)
- Dogfolk Shaman add ½ to the shaman’s effective class level for the purpose of determining her spirit animal‘s natural armor adjustment, Intelligence, and special abilities. (Halfling)
- Dogfolk Skald add one spell from the skald’s spell list to the skald’s known spells. This spell must be at least 1 spell level below the highest level the skald can cast. (Human)
- Dogfolk Slayers gain +1/6 of a new slayer talent. (Human)
- Dogfolk Swashbucklers increase the total number of points in the swashbuckler’s panache pool by ¼. (Human)
- Dogfolk Warpriests gain 1/6 of a new bonus combat feat. (Human)
SS,
A Str and Cha type dog sounds like a guard dog breed. It uses strength to fight enemies off, but a good guard dog can scare off an intruder without touching it (either by snarling or merely its presence). For me, this is bringing to mind a German shepherd. If I had to choose an ability score that gets a penalty I suppose I would have to go with Dex. They aren't clumsy, but they are certainly known for being a more intelligent breed and since they are used for searching I wouldn't want to give them a wisdom penaly either.
On guarders: sure, Cha + Abjuration screams spontaneous caster; specifically NOT the blaster kind. Bard, maybe. I don't think Guarders really do make great martials, as players see martials. They get no help in to-hit or damage from their score bonus. There are better breeds, in short. OTOH, I think Abjuration is meant for a "Guarder" breed. These breeds really are very gentle; not commonly grabbed for use in illegal dog-fights, for instance. Their whole mentality is based on protecting their home or flock in a defensive rather than offensive manner: spotting the predator, sounding the alarm, and intimidating them into running away.
For mutts, I'm thinking about it. Lucky might fit, but I still want it for herders...
And I'm hoping to persuade you all to reconsider what I did with herders. For one thing, I'm thinking of some prepared casters with herders.
To take the custom skill bonus first, this was my attempt to broaden the breed's appeal for the variety of classes you suggest I should have in mind. It will apply to Wild Empathy, for instance, or Survival checks to interpret animal tracks, or Knowledge (nature) concerning animals. And a sentient Herder humanoid should IMHO get a bonus on these checks.
The reason I gave Herders Lucky is that at least some sheepdogs had to go out and find lost sheep and herd them back (sometimes at the end of the summer, after the sheep had deliberately been left to scatter).
As the name implies, it is a sheep dog, but is also used as a watch dog and general working dog. When herding, the Icelandic Sheepdogs were not mainly used to take the sheep from one point to another, but to prevent animals from straying. Additionally, the dogs were in charge of herding horses and other animals, as well. When herding failed, the dogs drove the animals by barking. Thus, they tend to bark when they want something, although this behaviour can be controlled by training.
In the Icelandic landscape, sheep often get lost and it has historically been the dog's job to find them and return them to the herd. They are, therefore, used to working on their own and to figuring things out for themselves, so owners have to beware lest they learn things they should not.
While the German Shepherd has a different (and by far shorter) history, it's a suitable description for what they could do. Yes, very good at Handle Animal. But also very intelligent, very prone to figuring things out for themselves or learning new tricks. I'm also interpreting this as the ability to respond quickly to danger in its various forms -- I think reasonably so, for a dog out searching for a lost sheep, or trying to get a stupid animal safely back to its flock. THIS is the herder I'm thinking of, not a simple drover.
On the FCB's, what do folks here think about the ones that grant 1/5 or 1/6 of a bonus? I'm thinking of the Bloodrager/Brawler 1 ft move or the various 1/6th talent or feat.
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SorrySleeping, I think my biggest problem with your concept is that when I think of all of the breeds out there, Str isn't that big of an asset for dogs. There's arguments that can be made for all of them, don't get me wrong. (That's why I took my approach, after all!)
But I think I'd use the Flexible quality:
Flexible (2 RP): Members of this race gain a +2 bonus to any two ability scores.
And I'd go with +2 Int & +2 Cha as the most representative of all the breeds. Or I'd go with Specialized, and accept a -2 Dex to save 1 RP.
Dwarves don't get a bonus to Str, and when I think of a random dwarf and german shepherd in a tug of war, I'd expect the dwarf to win. (Assuming the shep had been trained in tug of war, I mean.) Centaurs get +2 Str, and again, I think a random centaur would win a tug of war with a german shepherd.
Admittedly, orcs & ogres get +4 Str, and this is only +2. Half-orcs can get +2 Str... Oreads & sulis get +2 Str, and I can't really picture them; they are, however, outsiders (native) -- beyond true native ability.
The best argument in favor of a +2 Str for dogfolk is that gnolls get Flexible (+2 Str, +2 Con).
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I'm sorry to have backed off from this thread. Unfortunately, I am ill with vertigo right now. I have been unable to look at gaming things or spend time with reading/typing on the screen since Tuesday the 20th. I hope that treatment will be successful next week.
The newest version isn't complete, yet, but I'll come back!
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Best wishes bitter lily for a speedy recovery.
I see where you are coming from, and a +2 Str/Cha doesn't make sense in Pathfinder terms, since +Str is so rare. I also don't want to create something powerful with +2 Str/Con or +2 mental stats. I may just stretch German Shepard a bit to try and fit it with -2 Dex to make it at least a more balanced gameplay option. I'll have it posted on Monday hopefully. (Weekend off yay!)
I'll probably want to try one or two racial archetypes in the future if I can think of any good ones. The problem comes then do you allow only certain breeds in, or allow all breeds and have it not make sense.
Anyways, more favored class bonuses. I forgot Prestige Classes didn't have anything.
- Dogfolk Aegis add +1/4 to the aegis’s customization points. (Human)
- Dogfolk Cryptics gain +1/6 of a new insight. (Human)
- Dogfolk Dreads gains +1/6 of a new terror. (Human)
- Dogfolk Marksmen gain 1/6th of a bonus feat. These feats must be ones Marksmen can gain through their normal bonus feats. (Custom)
- Dogfolk Psions add +1/3 power known from the psion power list. This power must be at least one level below the highest power level the psion can manifest. (Human/nerfed)
- Dogfolk Psychic Warriors add +1/3 to the psychic warrior’s manifester level when manifesting a path power. (Half-Elf)
- Dogfolk Soulknife add a +1 to the dogfolk's base speed. (Xeph)
- Dogfolk Tacticians add +1/4 to the tactician’s strategy daily uses. (Human)
- Dogfolk Vitalist add a +1/2 bonus on concentration checks when manifesting tactician powers. (Dwarf)
- Dogfolk Wilder add 1/4 power known from the wilder power list. This power must be at least one level below the highest power level the wilder can manifest. (Human)
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Careful now, you turn "man's best friend" into a humanoid, sapient race you may have players wanting to romance the characters or be one themselves for some fun. Laughs, unless that is was something you were expecting and considered? =P
All joking aside, this is an interesting idea and I look forward to you getting something more finalized in order. Though I am curious on how you plan on working out the lore and how the race came about. It looks interesting so far so I will keep an eye on this thread.
Careful now, you turn "man's best friend" into a humanoid, sapient race you may have players wanting to romance the characters or be one themselves for some fun. Laughs, unless that is was something you were expecting and considered? =P
All joking aside, this is an interesting idea and I look forward to you getting something more finalized in order. Though I am curious on how you plan on working out the lore and how the race came about. It looks interesting so far so I will keep an eye on this thread.
Heh, that reminds me of this one Traveller actual play podcast (very NSFW) on Rpg Mp3 where there's some sentient, sapient upright-bipedal canine-based aliens (Vargyr, in case anyone wanted to know) about that one player expressed that he wanted to have leashed and made to walk on all fours; it was done in a silly, jokey manner though, but something like that could kinda be a point of contention between dogfolk and the core PF humanoid races, especially where regular canines might still exist. ;)
Also the recent 2017 anime of the WorldEnd: What do you do at the end of the world?... series has some fun interactions between the lone human character amidst a world of full of non-human races, including canine based ones... among many others; episode 5, subtitled, being a good example.
PS. The dubbed versions can be found here.
Careful now, you turn "man's best friend" into a humanoid, sapient race you may have players wanting to romance the characters or be one themselves for some fun. Laughs, unless that is was something you were expecting and considered? =P
All joking aside, this is an interesting idea and I look forward to you getting something more finalized in order. Though I am curious on how you plan on working out the lore and how the race came about. It looks interesting so far so I will keep an eye on this thread.
Bitter lily jumped on the lore, and glad she did because I don't know a whole lot of Pathfinder lore.
As with any half-breed, is there a 25% chance that two dogfolk could end up having a normal dog as their baby?
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@Here4daFreeSwag
Hmm, I'll make sure to check out the series, from what I've seen of snippets that actually looks like it'd be a pretty interesting anime.
Given the length of most podcasts I might have to put the first link aside for now but I'll still make sure to double-check when I have the time to see if it's even that long.
Thanks for the links!
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@SorrySleeping, @bitter lilly
Ohh, that lore is definitely something I can work with as a DM and keeping in mind how humans use actual dogs at times I actually have an idea that could come to a shock to many players but also provide opportunity for them to actually do something about it.
What of there being a group of humanoids who take advantage of a dogfolk biology by creating a potion which forces a female dogfolk to stay in heat if they are made to continually drink it? Were they have essentially enslaved these dogfolk for breeding as well as for other purposes? Where the potion makes them docile and willing, submissive and eager to the needs of others.
How would a party react to this, especially one that happens to have a member of the dogfolk among them? Perhaps expecially with a player having female dogfolk in the party?
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Admittedly, given the strong reactions that could likely bring about all around I'd make sure to discuss such a plotline with the players ahead of time just to make sure that everyone will be comfortable and mature enough to work with such a scenario.
Also, before anyone asks, I'm the sort of DM who looks for scenarios where I can emotionally or morally motivate my players into acting a certain way where it could lead them to be more heroic and so the right thing if it is in character for them to do so. To take something that which is ugly, evil, which could make them uncomfortable, and actually do something to fix the problem.
Essentially I'm a DM who seeks to press the right buttons in which to motivate or manipulate the party to act a certain way. Where is not essentially just "these are orcs, which are an evil race so it's okay to kill them" but actually offer something that the players would actually see potentially evil themselves.
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I'm more or less back! And working on my doc; I'm down to the functional traits.
Careful now, you turn "man's best friend" into a humanoid, sapient race you may have players wanting to romance the characters or be one themselves for some fun. Laughs, unless that is was something you were expecting and considered? =P
All joking aside, this is an interesting idea and I look forward to you getting something more finalized in order. Though I am curious on how you plan on working out the lore and how the race came about. It looks interesting so far so I will keep an eye on this thread.
Glad to have you lurking! If you have ideas to contribute, I'll be glad to hear them. In terms of PCs playing dogfolk, that is indeed the point!
Bitter lily jumped on the lore, and glad she did because I don't know a whole lot of Pathfinder lore.
As with any half-breed, is there a 25% chance that two dogfolk could end up having a normal dog as their baby?
Sleepy, thanks for answering & linking while I was away!
As for the 25% chance thing, I didn't think there was such a thing for half-elves. Is there anything in PF lore to suggest it? In any case, the odds would vary considerably by couple.
Any "half-elf" individual might indeed have 1/2 & 1/2 human-elven blood, but might be as low as 1/8 for either race. (The threshold for Indian tribe membership, I believe, for instance.) There used to be terms like mulatto for 1/2 black, quadroon for 1/4 black, and octaroon for 1/8 black. ("Black" in this case means full-blooded African.) I doubt that there are many "quadroon-elves" that would truly have the full suite of racial traits of just three grandparents, let alone "mulatto-elves" who have only two grandparents of either race. It would be a fluke, not a 25% occurence.
Even octaroons or those with much less ancestry would likely have at least one racial trait of the other race, although mechanically the character would have to gain it via a character trait, rather than as a racial trait. There was also -- although I didn't know it till I wikied -- the term hexadecaroon for 1/16 black. In this case, you'd probably make up the character as a member of the major parent race and just put the great-great-grandparent of the other one in their backstory.
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@SorrySleeping, @bitter lilly
Ohh, that lore is definitely something I can work with as a DM and keeping in mind how humans use actual dogs at times I actually have an idea that could come to a shock to many players but also provide opportunity for them to actually do something about it.What of there being a group of humanoids who take advantage of a dogfolk biology by creating a potion which forces a female dogfolk to stay in heat if they are made to continually drink it? Were they have essentially enslaved these dogfolk for breeding as well as for other purposes? Where the potion makes them docile and willing, submissive and eager to the needs of others.
How would a party react to this, especially one that happens to have a member of the dogfolk among them? Perhaps expecially with a player having female dogfolk in the party?
Oh, the reaction would be strong! And sure, there might be an individual that evil around, who needs to be stopped! (I understand the GMing style. I'm not fond of "Oh, I see a monster! Kill it!" games either.)
OTOH, for Golarion, I personally am specifying that that sort of thing has stopped among the Ulfen. If the Chelish have started with it... I don't know.
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And Multiple-Breed Dogfolk are up on Dropbox!
I hope this link is good...
In general, I incorporated the changes that made sense to me. Thanks for making the recs!
Again, my apologies for the break. SorrySleeping, I'll look again at your version as soon as I can.
@Here4daFreeSwag
Hmm, I'll make sure to check out the series, from what I've seen of snippets that actually looks like it'd be a pretty interesting anime.Given the length of most podcasts I might have to put the first link aside for now but I'll still make sure to double-check when I have the time to see if it's even that long.
Oh yeah, forgot to put in the disclaimer that the WorldEnd anime series does end on something of a somber note; you'd probably want to also watch a more cheerful series to balance things out (such as the Little Witch Academia OVA's/series or even One-Punch Man). As for the podcast, be advised that it's no Glass Cannon Podcast quality but it's still listenable at twenty-something finished episodes. ;)
@SorrySleeping, @bitter lilly
Ohh, that lore is definitely something I can work with as a DM and keeping in mind how humans use actual dogs at times I actually have an idea that could come to a shock to many players but also provide opportunity for them to actually do something about it.What of there being a group of humanoids who take advantage of a dogfolk biology by creating a potion which forces a female dogfolk to stay in heat if they are made to continually drink it? Were they have essentially enslaved these dogfolk for breeding as well as for other purposes? Where the potion makes them docile and willing, submissive and eager to the needs of others.
How would a party react to this, especially one that happens to have a member of the dogfolk among them? Perhaps expecially with a player having female dogfolk in the party?
Oh, the reaction would be strong! And sure, there might be an individual that evil around, who needs to be stopped! (I understand the GMing style. I'm not fond of "Oh, I see a monster! Kill it!" games either.)
OTOH, for Golarion, I personally am specifying that that sort of thing has stopped among the Ulfen. If the Chelish have started with it... I don't know.
Heh, I always had it in my personal headcanon that once a species gets sapient and sentient, stuff like being "in heat" wouldn't really be applicable unless the species is a "willing participant".
That whole stuff about the potion of "heatingness", though, does kind of remind me of those urban legends of the "Spanish Fly" aphrodisiac (went the way of the Dodo, thanks to Viagra being invented). Which does lead me to wonder if there's even a possibility of reverse engineering such a concoction to work on any given humanoid race, not just dogfolk; it'd be quite the nefarious tool for the wicked... not to mention being a delicate subject that some folks may have to vet with their players in RL. ;)
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What of there being a group of humanoids who take advantage of a dogfolk biology by creating a potion which forces a female dogfolk to stay in heat if they are made to continually drink it? Were they have essentially enslaved these dogfolk for breeding as well as for other purposes? Where the potion makes them docile and willing, submissive and eager to the needs of others.
How would a party react to this, especially one that happens to have a member of the dogfolk among them? Perhaps expecially with a player having female dogfolk in the party?
Heh, I always had it in my personal headcanon that once a species gets sapient and sentient, stuff like being "in heat" wouldn't really be applicable unless the species is a "willing participant".
That whole stuff about the potion of "heatingness", though, does kind of remind me of those urban legends of the "Spanish Fly" aphrodisiac (went the way of the Dodo, thanks to Viagra being invented). Which does lead me to wonder if there's even a possibility of reverse engineering such a concoction to work on any given humanoid race, not just dogfolk; it'd be quite the nefarious tool for the wicked... not to mention being a delicate subject that some folks may have to vet with their players in RL. ;)
(I cut my ct out as irrelevant.)
Yes, I agree that a sentient in heat would still be discriminating. Normally. However...
I still remember a couple of ads I saw in my youth, back when I was so desperate for reading material I read the ads in the back of magazines. It was worth it, sometimes. There was some product advertising that you should buy it because it had the "scientifically proven Placebo Effect." I kid you not!
Well, there was also an ad for a pheromone a man could use that would make women instantly eager to have sex with him. There was a personal testimony of a guy who approached two women he didn't know in a restaurant, asked one of them out to his car, and had sex with her then and there -- all because he was using this product. Once I got done gagging at the idea of a man who'd want to do such a thing, I noticed the "Money Back Guarantee." It seems likely that they were counting on their customers being unwilling to admit that they were such losers that they couldn't have sex even with this sure-fire product! LOL!
So I'm betting that the potion Jonathan speculated about would actually be something a shyster would sell...
~~~
On second thought: If the potion exists somewhere, it would NOT make the drinker "docile and willing, submissive and eager to the needs of others." There's a reason "b*tch" has become the metaphor it did, you know. I've had a b*tch in heat in my home, as a foster. Nice dog, but NOT "eager to the needs of others." She wanted what she wanted, and she wanted it now! Now! NOW! (It didn't help that we also were fostering a male dog who'd come into rescue and been neutered at the age of 8. He knew full well what a guy should do for a lady friend in this state. He simply couldn't... well... He could get started... Never mind.)
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have you seen Pugmire might have some ideas you can use including a religion based on the CODE OF MAN, that teaches them to be Good Dogs
have you seen Pugmire might have some ideas you can use including a religion based on the CODE OF MAN, that teaches them to be Good Dogs
Be a Good Dog. Protect Your Home. Be Loyal To Those Who Are True.
looks like a good basis for dogfolk values, although I would replace "Be a Good Dog" with "Be Useful."
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Hang on let me see if I can find the full Creed
1) Be a Good Dog
2) Obey the Master
3) Bite only those who endanger you
4) Protect your Home
5) Be Loyal to those that are True
6) Protect all from the Unseen
7) Fetch what has been left behind.
There is also a neat batch of posters out there featuring the "Iconic" Dogs of Pugmire.
There is a Collie Cleric, a Dalmation (I think) Barbarian, Pug Scholar, Hound Ranger, Terrier Rogue and a Bulldog Paladin