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And yes, I've seen the Batman movies. Stuff that's fun to watch happen in a superhero movie is not necessarily fun to watch happen around a game table, especially not when it involves dropping to prone and standing up as free actions 2-3 times each on one turn (meaning within the span of 6 second - even in a superhero movie, that would look patently ridiculous).
How many free actions player can perform in 1 round is still up to GM. So feel free to say: "No, this is ok, but not 3 times in a round"
Hello all.
We've had a discussion recently in our gaming group concerning one issue with Stealth skill. We've read descriptions, FAQs and opinions and w/e but were unable to reach a consensus on this matter. I am humbly asking for a clarification.
Situation:
A Rogue with a high Stealth skill is 20 feet away from enemy Orc in a well-lit hall (normal light, no fog or w/e). There's a column 10 feet from Rogue, large enough to hide behind it. No surprise round, Orc has seen Rogue (he is observed at the beginning) but Rogue has the initiative and has his shortbow ready. Besides, he has Fast Stealth talent - just in case.Questions:
1. Can Rogue move behind column (thus leaving Orc's line of sight and getting cover from it), then declare that he enters Stealth, then move away from column, win Stealth vs Orc's Perception contest and finally perform ranged sneak attack, doing all of this in the same round?2. Can he repeat it on the next round (let's assume Orc can't move from his current position) -- again move behind column, declare Stealth, win Stealth-Perception contest and make a ranged sneak attack?
3. Can he repeat it again, but with melee attack instead of shooting (let's assume he has enough movement to get to Orc and he can easily get his dagger out using Quick Draw) ?
If yes ("Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth." and "Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action.") then let's take this to an extreme:
4. Rogue has a big barrel in front of him, enough to get cover from Orc. He drops prone (free action), declares Stealth, gets up with Stand Up talent (free action), wins Stealth-Perception contest, makes sneak attack, then drops prone as a free action again -- and all process repeats itself until Rogue is out of attacks. Is it a valid and legit tactic to employ?
Note: as i see, "Breaking stealth" paragraph in Stealth skill description is non-applicable here, as it starts with "When you start...
1) No, this will not work.
The Orc is aware of the rogue. In order for him to be hidden he must make a bluff check against the orc first (standard action) and then move behind the pillar (move action). On your next turn you can move into a position where you can make an attack and get sneak attack on that attack. Stealth breaks, and you have no more actions on your second turn. On the third turn you could bluff again and move behind the pillar. If you happen to be using a ranged weapon and don't need to move from behind the pillar to attack, then you instead use the rules for sniping to try to maintain your hidden position.
2) Again, it didn't work the first time. He could repeat the above actions I laid out though. He will need to continue to successfully bluff the orc and successfully use stealth against the orc. And the orc doesn't have to be a moron. The orc is allowed to move, and if the pillar is the only thing nearby that you could hide behind he is allowed to move and look around. If he gets into a position where you are no longer concealed by the rock from him, the orc just sees you.
Your follow up questions all basically have the same response.
You're missing the important part of stealth that you need to be observed to use stealth (or need to use bluff to create a distraction to use stealth) and that you also need concealment from the creature you are attempting to hide from. Also, when you attack stealth breaks.
Also, for what it's worth the observation that stealth is basically impossible to use in combat is true. It's supposed to be that way really. If you want to use "stealth" in combat the character needs to find a way to use vanish, invisibility, or greater invisibility. If this is because the character wants to get sneak attack more often then they should focus on getting flanking or feinting the enemy or finding a way to make them flat-footed.
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From my perspective (i`m one of the group) our main questions is:
1) What is "observed" condition? What makes you being observed?
2) Does hiding behind a column makes you unobserved until end of your turn at the SAME round (until enemy wins perception vs. stealth)?
Rules about "run to cover - stealth - next round - go out of cover - sneak attack" is pretty strict:
Player`s turn starts
If player is in stealth then
While pl.stealth > en.perception
Player is stealthed (unobserved) no matter what until attack or the end of their turn.
Else: . . . ?
However there are nothing about "run to cover - stealth - go out of cover - sneak attack"
There are no clear state that when you leave your cover/concealment you immediately lose your stealthed (unobserved) condition. If i understand correctly this is what all our local stealthwar is about
Observed is defined using the general English definition, which will generally be interpreted to mean aware of using any senses (typically sight).
Also, the line about unobserved isn't about being hidden using stealth. It's actually about how if someone is aware of you, you can't hide from them (without using bluff to distract or having some other ability).
It's right there in the stealth rules:
Creating a Diversion to Hide: You can use Bluff to allow you to use Stealth. A successful Bluff check can give you the momentary diversion you need to attempt a Stealth check while people are aware of you.
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Situation:
A Rogue with a high Stealth skill is 20 feet away from enemy Orc in a well-lit hall (normal light, no fog or w/e). There's a column 10 feet from Rogue, large enough to hide behind it. No surprise round, Orc has seen Rogue (he is observed at the beginning) but Rogue has the initiative and has his shortbow ready. Besides, he has Fast Stealth talent - just in case.Questions:
1. Can Rogue move behind column (thus leaving Orc's line of sight and getting cover from it), then declare that he enters Stealth, then move away from column, win Stealth vs Orc's Perception contest and finally perform ranged sneak attack, doing all of this in the same round?2. Can he repeat it on the next round (let's assume Orc can't move from his current position) -- again move behind column, declare Stealth, win Stealth-Perception contest and make a ranged sneak attack?
3. Can he repeat it again, but with melee attack instead of shooting (let's assume he has enough movement to get to Orc and he can easily get his dagger out using Quick Draw) ?
If yes ("Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth." and "Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action.") then let's take this to an extreme:
4. Rogue has a big barrel in front of him, enough to get cover from Orc. He drops prone (free action), declares Stealth, gets up with Stand Up talent (free action), wins Stealth-Perception contest, makes sneak attack, then drops prone as a free action again -- and all process repeats itself until Rogue is out of attacks. Is it a valid and legit tactic to employ?
All seem like yes to me.
That said, the one key thing here is that GM doesn't need to inform the player when stealth has failed vs perception of the enemy. So you could be thinking stealth worked and rolling sneak attack, but the GM, secretly, isn't adding your sneak attack to the damage dealt. You don't really ever know if it was working or not until the opponent attacks you (or otherwise interacts).
Regarding that barrel, if you drop prone behind a barrel, totally concealled briefly, and using that brief moment for stealth, that does seem fine, but the opponent could also roll stealth in that moment (readied action) and ruin further actions for your turn.
Additionally, it would be entirely reasonable for the GM to start providing circumstance bonuses on perception for NPCs facing any character that keeps using stealth in combat. And a further bonus (or penalty to your stealth) if you keep hiding in the same spot. And, long term, the GM may consider treating enemies with lower perception as having a lower CR, since they are just not challenging you enough.
Personally, I think the Rogue should be able to do all these things. Skill can be as good as magic, and "knowing someone is there" isn't the same as "observing someone".
Rogues (and others) can effectively act as real-world magicians, when they have the right skills and feats. You know that lady didn't actually vanish. But you still can't tell where she went...
(Besides, throw the mundanes a bone already! Of course the game's Stealth rules aren't realistic. Neither is a Fireball spell.)
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Breaking Stealth: When you start your turn using Stealth, you can leave cover or concealment and remain unobserved as long as you succeed at a Stealth check and end your turn in cover or concealment.
The answer to all of those questions is "no." You must have started your turn stealthing in order to still benefit from it when leaving the cover/concealment (pillar/barrel/whatever).
If you spent your round getting to cover and stealthing, the following turn you could walk out from the pillar into an illuminated, empty hallway and benefit from the stealth check.
Personally, I think the Rogue should be able to do all these things. Skill can be as good as magic, and "knowing someone is there" isn't the same as "observing someone".
You're right. Observing someone means being able to sense/see them. If you aren't already hidden from and there is clear line of sight you are being observed. Knowing someone is there is essentially defined in the Ultimate Intrigue book for one of the vigilante's abilities IIRC correctly, which basically ends up being "once you've done anything to make your presence known they know you're there until the end of combat".
Rogues (and others) can effectively act as real-world magicians, when they have the right skills and feats. You know that lady didn't actually vanish. But you still can't tell where she went...
Yeah, that's why there is the bluff check to distract the enemy so that you can try to make a stealth check again. Misdirection is what you're referring to, and that's a bluff.
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Questions:
1. Can Rogue move behind column (thus leaving Orc's line of sight and getting cover from it), then declare that he enters Stealth, then move away from column, win Stealth vs Orc's Perception contest and finally perform ranged sneak attack, doing all of this in the same round?
As a GM in PFS, I would allow this, however the stealth check would be -10 as per While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Stealth check if you can get to an unobserved place of some kind. This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast. I see no real difference between this and a bluff check (although feint is a standard action, so...). You are using the terrain and your skills to get a combat advantage. Seems reasonable, and I assume the sneak attacker has probably invested heavily in this setup to make it work. Without using the sniper rule, though, he is not hidden at the end of all of this.
2. Can he repeat it on the next round (let's assume Orc can't move from his current position) -- again move behind column, declare Stealth, win Stealth-Perception contest and make a ranged sneak attack?
Why not? Of course, same -10 penalty applies. But if the orc isn't very perceptive and the character is very skilled at stealth, I think he earns the extra sneak attack damage (which is all we are talking about here, right?
3. Can he repeat it again, but with melee attack instead of shooting (let's assume he has enough movement to get to Orc and he can easily get his dagger out using Quick Draw) ?
Again I would say yes, because I don't see any reason melee works different than ranged here.
If yes ("Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth." and "Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action.") then let's take this to an extreme:4. Rogue has a big barrel in front of him, enough to get cover from Orc. He drops prone (free action), declares Stealth, gets up with Stand Up talent (free action), wins Stealth-Perception contest, makes sneak attack, then drops prone as a free action again -- and all process repeats itself until Rogue is out of attacks. Is it a valid and legit tactic to employ?
I am not sure you can justify this. First, it does say Stealth is part of your movement action - if you are full attacking, you aren't moving generally. I don't think dropping prone or standing up could as a "move".
But if you went the other way on that point, I think the rules still support it. I would say that the -10 applies to the first use, and sniping rules (-20) apply to the rest, since that is the only rule I see that allows you to re-enter stealth. If it were not PFS, I would probably make it a cumulative penalty, but in PFS I would have to rule -10 on first attempt and -20 on each additional, assuming all the other skills and feats are being used properly.
And then remember, the rules do specifically state:
Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.
This is just as applicable in PFS as otherwise.
Just because the rogue makes his stealth roll does not mean the orc forgets where he is. He still knows the rogue is behind the pillar and can still see everything around the pillar. He cannot see what is blocked by the pillar so the rogue could use stealth to move somewhere else, maybe to a pillar behind the first one. From there he may be able to maneuver to another pillar where the orc does not know he is there. From this pillar he could use stealth to sniping to attack the orc. As long as he wins the stealth vs perception roll the orc has not determined his location and can continue using sniping and get sneak attack, assuming of course he is within 30’.
Hide in plain sight solves all these problems. Rouges can gain hide in plain sight as an advanced rogue talent. True it is only in one terrain but if they choose urban that would allow them to do it anywhere in a city. This is how Batman does what he does. The fact that hide in plain sight exists as a rogue talent kind of favors the idea that normal stealth does not allow for the kind of things your players are arguing for. If anyone using stealth can do what they want why is it an advance talent?
A lot of players use examples of characters that are very high level to justify what low level characters can do. Using Batman or most fictional character to argue that a low level character should be able to do something is silly. The fact that a 1st level rouge cannot do all the things Batman can do is
Hello all.
We've had a discussion recently in our gaming group concerning one issue with Stealth skill. We've read descriptions, FAQs and opinions and w/e but were unable to reach a consensus on this matter. I am humbly asking for a clarification.
Situation:
A Rogue with a high Stealth skill is 20 feet away from enemy Orc in a well-lit hall (normal light, no fog or w/e). There's a column 10 feet from Rogue, large enough to hide behind it. No surprise round, Orc has seen Rogue (he is observed at the beginning) but Rogue has the initiative and has his shortbow ready. Besides, he has Fast Stealth talent - just in case.Questions:
1. Can Rogue move behind column (thus leaving Orc's line of sight and getting cover from it), then declare that he enters Stealth, then move away from column, win Stealth vs Orc's Perception contest and finally perform ranged sneak attack, doing all of this in the same round?2. Can he repeat it on the next round (let's assume Orc can't move from his current position) -- again move behind column, declare Stealth, win Stealth-Perception contest and make a ranged sneak attack?
3. Can he repeat it again, but with melee attack instead of shooting (let's assume he has enough movement to get to Orc and he can easily get his dagger out using Quick Draw) ?
If yes ("Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth." and "Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action.") then let's take this to an extreme:
4. Rogue has a big barrel in front of him, enough to get cover from Orc. He drops prone (free action), declares Stealth, gets up with Stand Up talent (free action), wins Stealth-Perception contest, makes sneak attack, then drops prone as a free action again -- and all process repeats itself until Rogue is out of attacks. Is it a valid and legit tactic to employ?
Note: as i see, "Breaking stealth" paragraph in Stealth skill description is non-applicable here, as it starts with "When you start...
1. 2. 3. -> No. That's why 'Hide in plain sight' and 'Create a diversion with bluff' are for.
4. Attacking reveals your position unless you succeed on a 'Sniper attack' option using Stealth (-20 to the DC)
A couple of things stop it from working. Most importantly it has already been mentioned that you need to start your turn stealthed if you want to leave your cover and still sneak.
I'd also think the opponent needs to be unaware of your current position. If he knows you are exactly behind that column, you aren't exactly well hidden. You'd need to get there without him noticing (creating a diversion to hide) or to change your position unobserved. You should be able to enter stealth in a fog cloud for example, as your opponent couldn't tell from which direction you will strike.
Dropping prone shouldn't work in either case, as I'm pretty sure that movement in pathfinder includes going from one square to another. Simply clearing your (self-induced) prone condition shouldn't be sufficient for a stealth check, even if you are unobserved for some reason.
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A lot of players use examples of characters that are very high level to justify what low level characters can do. Using Batman or most fictional character to argue that a low level character should be able to do something is silly. The fact that a 1st level rouge cannot do all the things Batman can do is
Is Batman high lvl rogue? And the difference between high and low? Maybe in the number of skill points? Then it's a question of stealth vs perception. Mechanics remains the same. Batman does not disappear on a flat spot, he waits until the enemy will lose sight of him.
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I'm pretty sure that movement in pathfinder includes going from one square to another. Simply clearing your (self-induced) prone condition shouldn't be sufficient for a stealth check, even if you are unobserved for some reason.
No. Just no. Or this will not allow you to get your +40 stealth bonus for not moving in invisibility. Why this bonus is writen in core rulebook on p.107 if you need to move to use stealth?
No. Just no. Or this will not allow you to get your +40 stealth bonus for not moving in invisibility. Why this bonus is writen in core rulebook on p.107 if you need to move to use stealth?
I'm pretty sure that movement in pathfinder includes going from one square to another. Simply clearing your (self-induced) prone condition shouldn't be sufficient for a stealth check, even if you are unobserved for some reason.
Invisibility is different because you are totally concealed from the enemy via invisibility.
Don't compare how invisibility works to how stealth works, they are not the same.
It's also worth noting that an greater invisible creature that full attacks someone is not actually hidden using stealth. They just have total concealment against everyone else, which makes it difficult to hit them. You can notice an invisible creature that has just attacked (because attacking break stealth) by making a DC 20 perception check.
Concerning 'creating a diversion with Bluff' case. I liked this idea at first but then another thought struck me. It is easy to say 'Orc knows that Rogue is behind that pillar hence no Stealth', as in our mind pillar is not that thick and if Rogue make a tiny incorrect move then his nose or his toe or his ass will be visible to Orc.
Creating the diversion with bluff prevents the orc from knowing where the rogue went on his move action -- the diversion prevents the orc from following the rogue's movement -- he loses track of the rogue. This foils the orc's ability to follow without further information to go on. It has nothing to do with the actual use of stealth.
The Rogue can subsequently use stealth (hide) only if the column is large enough to provide concealment/cover. However, he doesn't have enough remaining actions to shoot the orc, as you can't 5' step back out from the column and shoot on the same turn you move. If you can still shoot the orc after moving behind the column, you don't have enough to hide effectively -- partial cover isn't enough to hide.Note that there is a rogue archetype that can do this without even requiring cover/concealment or stealth at all -- they can do it just by moving 10' and shooting an arrow.
Okay, but what if it not a pillar, but a 15' * 15' dense bush? Or a 20' * 20' stone block? Or something even bigger (lets not touch Rogue's available movement for now)? Now it instantly becomes rather hard to justify it as our Rogue is somewhere behind that BIG thing with a total cover from Orc -- with an emphasis on 'somewhere'. And it seems to me that in this situation Rogue pretty much guarantees having Stealth from Orc, as it his Rogue's Stealth+20 (due to being de facto invisible) vs Orc's Perception.But this opens another can of worms. Okay, Rogue can't Stealth behind 5*5 pillar but can do it behind 20*20 stone block. But where's the defined boundary between "can" and "can't"?
There's none.
There is -- read the concealment/cover rules. If you can gain concealment/cover against an opponent you can hide (as part of a move/move action).
However, if he didn't use bluff to have the orc lose track of his position, he won't gain much advantage. Because the orc will know "in general" where he is, but because he can't specifically know from where the ensuing attack is coming from, the attack qualifies for sneak attack damage.
Basically, this makes Sniping obsolete too. Rogue pops up from behind that block, wins Stealth check (w/o +20 as situation for Orc has changed, hence he gets a reactive Perception check vs Rogue's normal Stealth), forgets about Sniping completely (so Orc now knows who shot him and where he was) and then just moves somewhere behind that damn block getting +20 Stealth again due to being de facto invisible to Orc.Now i think it should be considered completely different cases. Wanna hide behind a floor mop or a standing fishing pole -- make a diversion somehow. Wanna hide behind a big stone block -- good for you. But then again - where's the RAW-defined bound? It is 'common sense' and 'up to GM' again. Same with barrel and GM limit on free actions.
A full attack from behind full cover is an option. However, remember again, that sniping is like using bluff for a distraction. The orc will know from where the attack comes and will be able to act accordingly. Moreover, only the 1st attack in the full attack sequence will qualify for sneak attack.
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Invisibility is different because you are totally concealed from the enemy via invisibility.Don't compare how invisibility works to how stealth works, they are not the same.
Invisibility is different from being visible? Ok. But this is not about performing invisibility, this is about performing stealth. And this is written in discription of stealth, not invisibility. Using cover usualy prevents foe from looking at you. So where is no difference here.
Knowing where you was moment ago do not grant your foe magic ability to know where you will be or from where will you attack or even will you attack or not. There is no way to know where will you go next moment, if he can't see you behind the pillar or stone wall.And stealth is not smthng that makes you totaly invisible. Not noticeing you is enough.
Here you're implying that Rogue's move action is finished when he goes behind a pillar and tries to hide. It is not the case by RAW -- "Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement". Nothing more, nothing less, no words about finishing move action or being unable to move after said Stealth check.
"As a part of movement" means that the use of your stealth skill is combined with your move action, not a discrete event in and of itself. It is part of the entire action -- start to finish. This is similar to drawing a weapon when moving into combat -- you don't draw the weapon and then move into combat, you draw it *as* you move into combat.
I do not believe it is either RAW or RAI that it is possible to simply walk behind a pillar as part of your movement to gain stealth and emerge and gain a sneak attack.
Read again this blurb from the stealth skill description:
If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check), you can attempt to use Stealth. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Stealth check if you can get to an unobserved place of some kind. This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast.
The rules allow for a mobile sneak attack if you start in stealth, move, attack and then re-hide -- but the originating state is unobserved, not being observed as your situation describes.
Since you are not starting in a position of cover/concealment, you cannot use stealth until you perform an action (in this case a move action) to use your stealth skill. Cover/concealment is a necessary pre-condition to using stealth if you do not distract first.
You do not have enough actions to do the "spring stealth attack". You have to do one of two things:
Distract, move/hide -- which means you can't attack due to action economy, or move and then hide, which means you can't attack due to action economy.
Either way, action economy prevents what you are trying to accomplish.
Just take the archetype and make it easy.
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Some of this has been covered throughout the thread, but I'm consolidating it here:
Situation:
A Rogue with a high Stealth skill is 20 feet away from enemy Orc in a well-lit hall (normal light, no fog or w/e). There's a column 10 feet from Rogue, large enough to hide behind it. No surprise round, Orc has seen Rogue (he is observed at the beginning) but Rogue has the initiative and has his shortbow ready. Besides, he has Fast Stealth talent - just in case.1. Can Rogue move behind column (thus leaving Orc's line of sight and getting cover from it), then declare that he enters Stealth, then move away from column, win Stealth vs Orc's Perception contest and finally perform ranged sneak attack, doing all of this in the same round?
No. He must start his turn using stealth if he wants to make this ranged sneak attack per the rules of Stealth and Breaking Stealth. See my explanation below.
2. Can he repeat it on the next round (let's assume Orc can't move from his current position) -- again move behind column, declare Stealth, win Stealth-Perception contest and make a ranged sneak attack?
No, because he couldn't do it in the first place so he can't repeat it.
But if he moved behind the pillar last round and used Stealth, then on this round he will be using Stealth at the start of his turn which allows him to move out from behind the pillar and make one sneak attack which will end his Stealth immediately. Note that this doesn't end his turn, so if he has Shot on the Run he might be able to keep moving and end his turn behind the pillar again, which lets him repeat this forever against the unmoving orc.
3. Can he repeat it again, but with melee attack instead of shooting (let's assume he has enough movement to get to Orc and he can easily get his dagger out using Quick Draw) ?
No, he still can't repeat what he couldn't do in the first place.
Again, if he starts his turn with Stealth, he can run up and stab the orc instead of shooting him, and either way it's a sneak attack that ends his Stealth. If he has Spring Attack, he could maybe have enough movement to end his turn behind the pillar again so he could start his next turn with Stealth and repeat it forever against the unmoving orc.
If yes ("Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth." and "Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action.") then let's take this to an extreme
(it was "no", actually)
4. Rogue has a big barrel in front of him, enough to get cover from Orc. He drops prone (free action), declares Stealth, gets up with Stand Up talent (free action), wins Stealth-Perception contest, makes sneak attack, then drops prone as a free action again -- and all process repeats itself until Rogue is out of attacks. Is it a valid and legit tactic to employ?
Still no, unless he STARTS his turn with Stealth.
Let's rephrase it.
Rogue begins his turn with Stealth (which he used LAST TURN). He stands up with Stand Up talent, makes his ranged sneak attack, then drops prone, makes another stealth check now that he has concealment, then ends his turn. Next turn the orc has not moved, so the rogue repeats his actions.
Perfectly fine by the rules, but some people quibble on the exact meaning of "make a Stealth check as part of movement" so there could be some pushback on this.
The key is starting your turn with Stealth.
Note: as i see, "Breaking stealth" paragraph in Stealth skill description is non-applicable here, as it starts with "When you start your turn using Stealth...". Our Rogue always starts being plainly visible.
That doesn't make it inapplicable. In fact, it makes it extra applicable: since your rogue is plainly visible, then he can't
The rule says: "Breaking Stealth When you start your turn using Stealth, you can leave cover or concealment and remain unobserved as long as you succeed at a Stealth check and end your turn in cover or concealment. Your Stealth immediately ends after you make an attack roll, whether or not the attack is successful (except when sniping as noted below)."
Since he did NOT start his TURN using Stealth, he cannot use any part of this rule. It doesn't matter that he gains Stealth later in his turn because this rule says "start your turn", not start your attack or start your action.
Also Stealth says: "It’s impossible to use Stealth while attacking..."
What this rogue wants to do is use Stealth while attacking to get his sneak attack. This is impossible, per the Stealth rules. But Stealth has an exception to allow you to "Break Stealth" and still get the benefits of using stealth for one attack roll, but only if you start your turn using Stealth. However, in all the examples above, the rogue is NOT starting his turn using Stealth.
Therefore, no, none of the above can be done by rules.
Although if we shift the timing a little so the rogue ends his previous turn behind the pillar, barrel, etc. and successfully uses Stealth, then begins his current turn with Stealth, then all the scenarios above are allowed as long as he ends each turn behind cover or concealment to use Stealth as part of movement so he can begin next turn using Stealth.
Is Batman high lvl rogue? And the difference between high and low? Maybe in the number of skill points? Then it's a question of stealth vs perception. Mechanics remains the same. Batman does not disappear on a flat spot, he waits until the enemy will lose sight of him.
A lot of players use examples of characters that are very high level to justify what low level characters can do. Using Batman or most fictional character to argue that a low level character should be able to do something is silly. The fact that a 1st level rouge cannot do all the things Batman can do is
That actually got me thinking and I was able to make a decent Batman as a 15th level unchained rogue. Basically you need to have at least two advance rogue talents. Hide in Plain Sight (Urban) and Unarmed Combat Mastery. Max out his DEX and use the Finesse Training with unarmed strike and he gets decent damage. A couple of skill unlocks and appropriate magic items to simulate all his gadgets and it works pretty well. Keep in mind that Batman usually fights normal so most if not all of what he fights are probably under 5th level. Tack on a couple of Mythic tiers and you have a decent Batman clone.