Hey guys! Im playing a little introduction campaign with a few friends to get some of our OTHER friends into pathfinder. Im playing a rebuild of a character that I play pretty often for this kind of thing and wanted a some help picking a class to dip into for a level to give my healing cleric a little bit of offensive help. I know it sounds funny but I want to blind side my gm with this. Typically this character is a cute little chick with lots of love and healing to give but very little offensive presence, typically none hehe.
So this time Id like to make her physically capable on top of healing capable. The fact that im a gnome gives me some issues of course but im looking at it as a challenge over a set back. Here are my stats, currently im a level 1 merciful healer with 12 str, 12 dex, 14 con, 7 int, 17 wis and 14 cha. The plan is to pick up power attack as soon as I put my level 4 bonus stat into my str to meet the requirement. I am unsure what level we will be stopping this campaign but if possible id like to hoard my gold as much as possible until I can afford the most powerful belt of strength I can. With this gm, I dont think money will be an issue as it typically isnt with him. I feel I should mention that my stats are where I want them to be and I dont want to adjust them. I do worship Sarenrae if it helps though I dont plan to use her weapon as the morning star is just a better option.
Currently Im thinking of a one level dip into either Fighter for the feat and the martial weapons/ heavy armor, the metal oracle for its ability to move at full speed in medium armor and with an extra feet i can buy another revelation to get the ability to use heavy armor and martial weapons, or the barbarian for martial weapons and 10 extra movement speed which i think will give me 25 movement in medium armor?
I'd suggest Bloodrager over going barbarian if taking a 1 level dip.
Another suggestion is the Brawler as a 1 level dip gives you a lot of flexibility.
Domains, grab Healing (actually grab a healing sub domain, think they're better) and Fire. Fire Domain gives you some verry nice blow things up fire spells. This way you don't need that one level dip.
Matt2VK wrote:
I'd suggest Bloodrager over going barbarian if taking a 1 level dip.
Another suggestion is the Brawler as a 1 level dip gives you a lot of flexibility.
Domains, grab Healing (actually grab a healing sub domain, think they're better) and Fire. Fire Domain gives you some verry nice blow things up fire spells. This way you don't need that one level dip.
*Oops* missed that merciful healer archetype.
Matt2VK wrote: Matt2VK wrote:
I'd suggest Bloodrager over going barbarian if taking a 1 level dip.
Another suggestion is the Brawler as a 1 level dip gives you a lot of flexibility.
Domains, grab Healing (actually grab a healing sub domain, think they're better) and Fire. Fire Domain gives you some verry nice blow things up fire spells. This way you don't need that one level dip.
*Oops* missed that merciful healer archetype. Sooooooooo, whats your suggestion now that you saw the merciful healer? Also, im not going brawler, there isnt much reason to not just go fighter over brawler for just one level, i played a brawler for 14 levels. Fun but not what im looking for.
Freebooter Ranger- +2 on Fort and Reflex saves, Move action Team buff, Skills, Track, Wild Empathy (to pair with your Speak with animals racial SLA), and Martial weapon prof.
Freebooter's Bane wrote: At 1st level, the freebooter can, as a move action, indicate an enemy in combat and rally her allies to focus on that target. The freebooter and her allies gain a +1 bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls against the target. This ability applies only to allies who can see or hear the freebooter and who are within 30 feet of the freebooter at the time she activates this ability. No limit to the amount of times you can do that and gives you a nice Move action buff so you can still use a standard to Bless, Prayer, or whatever.
Heavy armor is not as important as you would think. I played an Oracle recently who had 40 AC in medium armor and a Shield. So it is not a big deal.
Do not make healing your focus as most healing takes place outside combat and your in combat should be to end the encounter or reduce as much damage as possible.
Sacred summons is a fantastic feat for Standard action summoning. Summon it up, Freebooter Bane it and send it in.
With your Current Stats being terribly allotted for Combat you are actually better off summoning + buffing than going into melee yourself. Or re arrange your stats. You could go 2 levels of Ranger and keep magical Knack for your cleric CL to keep pace. Grab Power attack since you lack a 13 Str. Then pair the BaB from Ranger with Divine favor you can have a decent to hit...you are just going a LONG way to accomplish it.
Louise Bishop wrote: Freebooter Ranger- +2 on Fort and Reflex saves, Move action Team buff, Skills, Track, Wild Empathy (to pair with your Speak with animals racial SLA), and Martial weapon prof.
Freebooter's Bane wrote: At 1st level, the freebooter can, as a move action, indicate an enemy in combat and rally her allies to focus on that target. The freebooter and her allies gain a +1 bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls against the target. This ability applies only to allies who can see or hear the freebooter and who are within 30 feet of the freebooter at the time she activates this ability. No limit to the amount of times you can do that and gives you a nice Move action buff so you can still use a standard to Bless, Prayer, or whatever.
Heavy armor is not as important as you would think. I played an Oracle recently who had 40 AC in medium armor and a Shield. So it is not a big deal.
Do not make healing your focus as most healing takes place outside combat and your in combat should be to end the encounter or reduce as much damage as possible.
Sacred summons is a fantastic feat for Standard action summoning. Summon it up, Freebooter Bane it and send it in.
With your Current Stats being terribly allotted for Combat you are actually better off summoning + buffing than going into melee yourself. Or re arrange your stats. You could go 2 levels of Ranger and keep magical Knack for your cleric CL to keep pace. Then pair the BaB from Ranger with Divine favor you can have a decent to hit...you are just going a LONG way to accomplish it.
Im ignoring your suggestion to not make healing my focus as ive been playing with this gm and half of this party for years, if they dont have a healer, they die. plain and simple, its the way they all play, I hate the "the best way to be a healer is kill everything first" argument because it doesnt apply to every party or every situation. Im going to play the way I want and the way my party needs. This ranger sounds alright but im not planning to go into summoning at any point, im also not rearranging my stats, im not trying to be so adamant here but ive given the choices that im looking at already and ignoring them doesnt really solve my issue or help in any way at all.
ViConstantine wrote: Louise Bishop wrote: Freebooter Ranger- +2 on Fort and Reflex saves, Move action Team buff, Skills, Track, Wild Empathy (to pair with your Speak with animals racial SLA), and Martial weapon prof.
Freebooter's Bane wrote: At 1st level, the freebooter can, as a move action, indicate an enemy in combat and rally her allies to focus on that target. The freebooter and her allies gain a +1 bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls against the target. This ability applies only to allies who can see or hear the freebooter and who are within 30 feet of the freebooter at the time she activates this ability. No limit to the amount of times you can do that and gives you a nice Move action buff so you can still use a standard to Bless, Prayer, or whatever.
Heavy armor is not as important as you would think. I played an Oracle recently who had 40 AC in medium armor and a Shield. So it is not a big deal.
Do not make healing your focus as most healing takes place outside combat and your in combat should be to end the encounter or reduce as much damage as possible.
Sacred summons is a fantastic feat for Standard action summoning. Summon it up, Freebooter Bane it and send it in.
With your Current Stats being terribly allotted for Combat you are actually better off summoning + buffing than going into melee yourself. Or re arrange your stats. You could go 2 levels of Ranger and keep magical Knack for your cleric CL to keep pace. Then pair the BaB from Ranger with Divine favor you can have a decent to hit...you are just going a LONG way to accomplish it.
Im ignoring your suggestion to not make healing my focus as ive been playing with this gm and half of this party for years, if they dont have a healer, they die. plain and simple, its the way they all play, I hate the "the best way to be a healer is kill everything first" argument because it doesnt apply to every party or every situation. Im going to play the way I want and the way my party needs. This ranger sounds alright but im not... It doesn't apply when groups have terrible synergy, terrible strategy, make bad plays/decisions and badly built characters.
But you asked for real advice and I gave you solid answers most veteran players use.
But your are within your rights to ignore all advice given as you have been doing so far. Struggling is defiantly an option..
But you should not ask for advice and then reject it all. If you are going to just reject it, then keep it to yourself and not respond or do not even ask others for advice since you do not take it well.
In my opening post I said I have been considering going 1 level into fighter, barbarian or metal oracle. Me and my party play for fun, we arent "veterans" this isnt optimization building, its for fun. Im asking for advice on the class based on my play style, needs, and the needs of my party, if you dont have a legitimate answer then why even post?
Louise Bishop wrote: ViConstantine wrote: Louise Bishop wrote: Freebooter Ranger- +2 on Fort and Reflex saves, Move action Team buff, Skills, Track, Wild Empathy (to pair with your Speak with animals racial SLA), and Martial weapon prof.
Freebooter's Bane wrote: At 1st level, the freebooter can, as a move action, indicate an enemy in combat and rally her allies to focus on that target. The freebooter and her allies gain a +1 bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls against the target. This ability applies only to allies who can see or hear the freebooter and who are within 30 feet of the freebooter at the time she activates this ability. No limit to the amount of times you can do that and gives you a nice Move action buff so you can still use a standard to Bless, Prayer, or whatever.
Heavy armor is not as important as you would think. I played an Oracle recently who had 40 AC in medium armor and a Shield. So it is not a big deal.
Do not make healing your focus as most healing takes place outside combat and your in combat should be to end the encounter or reduce as much damage as possible.
Sacred summons is a fantastic feat for Standard action summoning. Summon it up, Freebooter Bane it and send it in.
With your Current Stats being terribly allotted for Combat you are actually better off summoning + buffing than going into melee yourself. Or re arrange your stats. You could go 2 levels of Ranger and keep magical Knack for your cleric CL to keep pace. Then pair the BaB from Ranger with Divine favor you can have a decent to hit...you are just going a LONG way to accomplish it.
Im ignoring your suggestion to not make healing my focus as ive been playing with this gm and half of this party for years, if they dont have a healer, they die. plain and simple, its the way they all play, I hate the "the best way to be a healer is kill everything first" argument because it doesnt apply to every party or every situation. Im going to play the way I want and the way my party needs. This ... We dont play the same way with the same builds that everyone online seems to, we play for fun, i know that the "pro" way to do it or the "veteran" way monopolizes the web but im not asking for those. They ARE NOT FUN. When we play the way that we have been told to instead of just building our characters to do what we want them to based on how we plan their personalities and characteristics, we have a bad time.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
I second bloodrager. Fighter would be a good fall-back, but your CHA is good enough to make bloodrager viable.
Fighter nets you less than Ranger
Barbarian gives you only 6 rounds of rage in a single day and you can not CAST while raging....Not worth it for 6 rounds.
Metal Oracle LOWERS your BaB and makes it harder to hit
Your a Gnome...Your Base speed is 20...in Medium-Heavy it is 15....Even with the 10ft enhancement your still at 20ft of movement...Still not worth it.
Movement wrote:
Base Speed Reduced Speed
5 ft. 5 ft.
10 ft.–15 ft. 10 ft.
20 ft. 15 ft.
25 ft.–30 ft. 20 ft.
35 ft. 25 ft.
40 ft.–45 ft. 30 ft.
50 ft. 35 ft.
55 ft.–60 ft. 40 ft.
65 ft. 45 ft.
70 ft.–75 ft. 50 ft.
80 ft. 55 ft.
85 ft.–90 ft. 60 ft.
95 ft. 65 ft.
100 ft.–105 ft. 70 ft.
110 ft. 75 ft.
115 ft.–120 ft. 80 ft.
Alayern wrote: I second bloodrager. Fighter would be a good fall-back, but your CHA is good enough to make bloodrager viable. What is the large benefit to the bloodrager over say the barbarian? I see that the barbarian cant cast while raging, the big draw for me was the movement speed because as a gnome, well im slow and until I can afford magic items to fix that , its a problem. I see the bloodrager can cast some bloodline stuff I guess? But, no actual spells until several levels in so am I missing something? Or are they just a barbarian that can cast during raging?
Louise Bishop wrote: Fighter nets you less than Ranger
Barbarian gives you only 6 rounds of rage in a single day and you can not CAST while raging....Not worth it for 6 rounds.
Metal Oracle LOWERS your BaB and makes it harder to hit
Your a Gnome...Your Base speed is 20...in Medium-Heavy it is 15....Even with the 10ft enhancement your still at 20ft of movement...Still not worth it.
Movement wrote:
Base Speed Reduced Speed
5 ft. 5 ft.
10 ft.–15 ft. 10 ft.
20 ft. 15 ft.
25 ft.–30 ft. 20 ft.
35 ft. 25 ft.
40 ft.–45 ft. 30 ft.
50 ft. 35 ft.
55 ft.–60 ft. 40 ft.
65 ft. 45 ft.
70 ft.–75 ft. 50 ft.
80 ft. 55 ft.
85 ft.–90 ft. 60 ft.
95 ft. 65 ft.
100 ft.–105 ft. 70 ft.
110 ft. 75 ft.
115 ft.–120 ft. 80 ft.
My movement speed math was off for sure thank you. The barbarian atleast gives me full movement speed for a gnome in medium which is nice I suppose. I mean 20 speed is never really great at all unless you are a dwarf and the 20 movement actually benefits you. The oracle does hurt my bab and I wasnt a huge fan of the idea because of that reason but it does allow me full movement in medium on top of the ability to pick up heavy armor later which is decent. The fighter i like because of his ability to use basically whatever plus the extra feat is always great. If you havnt noticed my big worry is that my weapon isnt great due to what the cleric is allowed to use and my speed is garbage because of my size.
Use a reach weapon.
15 movement + reach = 20ft
Reach meta magic rods or feat and send touch spells over a distance.
Also is Guided weapons allowed?
ViConstantine wrote: Typically this character is a cute little chick with lots of love and healing to give but very little offensive presence, typically none hehe. Dipping 1 level of another class as a gnome with those stats is going to give "very little offensive presence". Alas... My suggestion is to build offense on what you currently are, rather than to add offense to what you are not.
Spiritual Weapon (crit on 18-20 for Sarenrae clerics) will deal more damage, more reliably than you will with a normal weapon. You can give it even more pop by spending resources on it.
Furious Spell (the feat) will add +4 damage to the first hit on each target. This costs +1 spell level, but can be added with a meta magic rod for 3000gp expenditure. You can also cast Sound Burst for a no save, auto hit 1d8+4 damage area effect spell.
Flagbearer feat will add +1/+1 to it, as well as to everyone else in a 30 ft radius. That feat can also save you the need to spend an action to cast Bless.
Prayer is an additional +1/+1 to it, also helping the party. You can get +2/+2 with the Fate's Favored trait.
***************************************
Level 4:
- Buy Lesser Rod of Furious Spell (3000gp)
- +1 to CHA
+5 to hit for 1d8+5 damage with Furious Spiritual Weapon
Level 5:
- Flagbearer feat
- Buy +2 WIS headband (4000gp)
+7 to hit for 1d8+6 damage with Furious Spiritual Weapon
This is your baseline to compare to prior to casting additional spells to buff yourself.
This "offense" has the added benefit of also being the same walking path your cleric is already taking, so not wasting resources off the path (if you change your mind) can be a big boon.
With 12's in strength and dexterity you will never be good at melee or ranged combat regardless of what classes you take, so you'd benefit most strongly from staying single-class Cleric. This will get you additional spell slots which can be used to memorize additional combat-oriented spells. Something as simple as a Summon Monster spell will support your team much better than trying to hit stuff yourself.
Louise Bishop wrote: Use a reach weapon.
15 movement + reach = 20ft
Reach meta magic rods or feat and send touch spells over a distance.
Also is Guided weapons allowed?
Reach is great but are there any reach weapons with a decent damage die at small sizes? if there is anything over a d6 then I suppose it might be worth the time. Then again couldnt I just take the lunge feat when my bab is high enough? It doesnt exactly fix my speed problem either way, if we have to run from combat (Its happened more often than you think in previous campaigns) Then we just cant because ill be the slowest and too slow to run.
Dasrak wrote: With 12's in strength and dexterity you will never be good at melee or ranged combat regardless of what classes you take, so you'd benefit most strongly from staying single-class Cleric. This will get you additional spell slots which can be used to memorize additional combat-oriented spells. Something as simple as a Summon Monster spell will support your team much better than trying to hit stuff yourself. My base str is 12 yes, got it. Bulls strength, My biggest character purchase as early as possible is also going to be a belt of giants str sooooooo?
Bloodrager gives you a D10 health instead of D12 but depending on what bloodline you take, gives you a 1st level power while raging.
About the only difference with a 1 level dip.
Do you have to stay as a merciful healer?
If you go with a standard Cleric of Sarenrae with the Domains of Restoration (Healing subdomain) and Fire. You can cover both healing and dealing damage with the Fire domains spells.
Remember, as a positive energy cleric, you can convert all your spells to cure spells so you don't need to memorize cure spells at the start of the day. Seen a number of people forget this little ability of clerics.
Matt2VK wrote: Bloodrager gives you a D10 health instead of D12 but depending on what bloodline you take, gives you a 1st level power while raging.
About the only difference with a 1 level dip.
Do you have to stay as a merciful healer?
If you go with a standard Cleric of Sarenrae with the Domains of Restoration (Healing subdomain) and Fire. You can cover both healing and dealing damage with the Fire domains spells.
Remember, as a positive energy cleric, you can convert all your spells to cure spells so you don't need to memorize cure spells at the start of the day. Seen a number of people forget this little ability of clerics.
Yes i have to stay a merciful healer, I would give up the archetype but the combat medic ability is just simply TOO GOOD, provoke no attacks of opportunity when using the heal skill, or casting any healing spell? Thats so great. I dont like losing a domain, really, I dont but its something ive thought about already for a while.
Rory wrote: ViConstantine wrote: Typically this character is a cute little chick with lots of love and healing to give but very little offensive presence, typically none hehe. Dipping 1 level of another class as a gnome with those stats is going to give "very little offensive presence". Alas... My suggestion is to build offense on what you currently are, rather than to add offense to what you are not.
Spiritual Weapon (crit on 18-20 for Sarenrae clerics) will deal more damage, more reliably than you will with a normal weapon. You can give it even more pop by spending resources on it.
Furious Spell (the feat) will add +4 damage to the first hit on each target. This costs +1 spell level, but can be added with a meta magic rod for 3000gp expenditure. You can also cast Sound Burst for a no save, auto hit 1d8+4 damage area effect spell.
Flagbearer feat will add +1/+1 to it, as well as to everyone else in a 30 ft radius. That feat can also save you the need to spend an action to cast Bless.
Prayer is an additional +1/+1 to it, also helping the party. You can get +2/+2 with the Fate's Favored trait.
***************************************
Level 4:
- Buy Lesser Rod of Furious Spell (3000gp)
- +1 to CHA
+5 to hit for 1d8+5 damage with Furious Spiritual Weapon
Level 5:
- Flagbearer feat
- Buy +2 WIS headband (4000gp)
+7 to hit for 1d8+6 damage with Furious Spiritual Weapon
This is your baseline to compare to prior to casting additional spells to buff yourself.
This "offense" has the added benefit of also being the same walking path your cleric is already taking, so not wasting resources off the path (if you change your mind) can be a big boon.
These are pretty wonderful spells you have suggested I wont lie, though, my biggest reason for the dip is to help with either my speed problem or my weapon/armor problem, or both. The traits I currently have picked are Vengeful- +1 dmg if I attack anything that hit me in the last 24 hours. I have a friend playing a fighter in one of our other campaigns who absolutely ABUSES this to the point where you would never think it would be as good as it is, my other trait is holy symbol tattoo as I dont need a holy symbol to cast and rather can have it tattooed on my characters weapon hand or something so that I can cast while holding things like weapons or shields.
ViConstantine wrote:
My base str is 12 yes, got it. Bulls strength, My biggest character purchase as early as possible is also going to be a belt of giants str sooooooo?
That's not going to help you. You're adding bonuses on top of a 12, so all that effort is only going to get you into passable territory. If you want to be a Cleric with a melee presence, you want to have at least a base 16 in strength and then bolster that will items and buffs to get it into the 20's.
Given your low physical stats, you'd get way better results by focusing on your spellcasting in a support, offense, or summoning capacity.
ViConstantine wrote: My base str is 12 yes, got it. Bulls strength, My biggest character purchase as early as possible is also going to be a belt of giants str sooooooo? Bull's Strength and a belt of giant strength do not stack. I'm sure you know this. Just saying this for posterity.
16,000gp for a +4 Belt of STR (= +2/+2)
8,000gp for a +1 grayflame weapon (= +2/+2 +1d6)
If you did want to pursue this weapon offense, then getting a +1 grayflame weapon first and then casting Bull's Strength is much, much stronger (quicker) than getting a belt of strength. Granted, in the future you will want both and just cast Divine Favor (and eventually Divine Power), but I digress.
********************************************************
Grayflame (+1 enchantment from Ultimate Combat)
This weapon responds to channeled positive and negative energy.
When the wielder spends a swift action to channel energy through the weapon, it ignites with a strange gray flame that sheds light as a torch, increases the weapon’s enhancement bonus by +1, and deals +1d6 damage (as the divine power from flame strike) to creatures struck by the weapon. This flame lasts for 1 round for every d6 of damage or healing the channeling normally provides. When charged with positive energy, the flame is a silvery gray, good creatures are immune to the weapon’s extra damage, and the weapon counts as a good and silver weapon for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction. When charged with negative energy, the flame is an ashen gray, evil creatures are immune to the weapon’s extra damage, and the weapon counts as an evil and cold iron weapon for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction. This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons.
Dasrak wrote: ViConstantine wrote:
My base str is 12 yes, got it. Bulls strength, My biggest character purchase as early as possible is also going to be a belt of giants str sooooooo?
That's not going to help you. You're adding bonuses on top of a 12, so all that effort is only going to get you into passable territory. If you want to be a Cleric with a melee presence, you want to have at least a base 16 in strength and then bolster that will items and buffs to get it into the 20's.
Given your low physical stats, you'd get way better results by focusing on your spellcasting in a support, offense, or summoning capacity. my stat increases for 4 and 8 are both going into str giving me 14. bulls strength adds 4, even with the lowest level of belt im getting 20 str by level 8. my plan was to get the highest level of giants strength belt giving me 20 at 8 without even having bulls strength, and yes im expecting to have that much cash by that level. IF I decided to add bulls strength thats 24 strength at level 8, not to mention the cheap ion stones that add 2 to your stats.
Rory wrote: ViConstantine wrote: My base str is 12 yes, got it. Bulls strength, My biggest character purchase as early as possible is also going to be a belt of giants str sooooooo? Bull's Strength and a belt of giant strength do not stack. I'm sure you know this. Just saying this for posterity.
16,000gp for a +4 Belt of STR (= +2/+2)
8,000gp for a +1 grayflame weapon (= +2/+2 +1d6)
If you did want to pursue this weapon offense, then getting a +1 grayflame weapon first and then casting Bull's Strength is much, much stronger (quicker) than getting a belt of strength. Granted, in the future you will want both and just cast Divine Favor (and eventually Divine Power), but I digress.
********************************************************
Grayflame (+1 enchantment from Ultimate Combat)
This weapon responds to channeled positive and negative energy.
When the wielder spends a swift action to channel energy through the weapon, it ignites with a strange gray flame that sheds light as a torch, increases the weapon’s enhancement bonus by +1, and deals +1d6 damage (as the divine power from flame strike) to creatures struck by the weapon. This flame lasts for 1 round for every d6 of damage or healing the channeling normally provides. When charged with positive energy, the flame is a silvery gray, good creatures are immune to the weapon’s extra damage, and the weapon counts as a good and silver weapon for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction. When charged with negative energy, the flame is an ashen gray, evil creatures are immune to the weapon’s extra damage, and the weapon counts as an evil and cold iron weapon for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction. This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons. I wasnt aware that they didnt stack together, thank you for that. I WAS however aware of the grayflame enchantment, its a great enchantment.
Heal Skill - No one really uses that in combat. Actually I don't know too many people that actually puts more then 1 or 2 ranks in it as spells are so much better.
Casting in combat - Just hide behind the person you're healing. They provide cover and if you have cover, you don't provoke AO.
...or you can cast your touch spell, move up, and then apply your spell to the target. All Touch spells are 'charge spells'. They are held till used.
A fair amount of the Merciful healing can be replaced with the Restoration Domains 1st level power Restoration Touch. It's not as flexible but you do get it at 1st level instead of having to wait levels for Merciful.
It's a trade off and you have to be the person to decide if it's worth it.
Matt2VK wrote: Heal Skill - No one really uses that in combat. Actually I don't know too many people that actually puts more then 1 or 2 ranks in it as spells are so much better.
Casting in combat - Just hide behind the person you're healing. They provide cover and if you have cover, you don't provoke AO.
...or you can cast your touch spell, move up, and then apply your spell to the target. All Touch spells are 'charge spells'. They are held till used.
A fair amount of the Merciful healing can be replaced with the Restoration Domains 1st level power Restoration Touch. It's not as flexible but you do get it at 1st level instead of having to wait levels for Merciful.
It's a trade off and you have to be the person to decide if it's worth it.
Hiding behind someone in combat so i can heal them wont be helpful to anyone if they are surrounded, which happens more often then not in our games so when i have to charge up to help them out with heals, there is no "behind them" the merciful healer combat medic bonus has given me a lot of help in the past and thats why its become my first choice every time ive rebuilt this character.
Your Speed problem -
Dump a couple ranks into UMD and pick up a Wand of Longstrider. Longstrider gives a +10 enhancement bonus to movement and lasts 1 hour.
Without the UMD, requires a Druid or Ranger to casts.
Work around if you don't want to put ranks into UMD and play the odds before the wand works for you. -
There is a Ioun stone that will hold a first level spell cast into it. Give someone the Ioun Stone that's able to cast this spell. Have them use the Wand on the Ioun Stone. You then take the Ioun Stone and use the spell stored in it.
Sorry, can't remember the name of this Ioun Stone and not really at a place I can look it up.
Matt2VK wrote: Your Speed problem -
Dump a couple ranks into UMD and pick up a Wand of Longstrider. Longstrider gives a +10 enhancement bonus to movement and lasts 1 hour.
Without the UMD, requires a Druid or Ranger to casts.
Work around if you don't want to put ranks into UMD and play the odds before the wand works for you. -
There is a Ioun stone that will hold a first level spell cast into it. Give someone the Ioun Stone that's able to cast this spell. Have them use the Wand on the Ioun Stone. You then take the Ioun Stone and use the spell stored in it.
Sorry, can't remember the name of this Ioun Stone and not really at a place I can look it up.
Thats a pretty interesting answer for it I suppose. My original plan if I cant fix any of it immediately was to get boots of striding once i could afford them. This is a neat option, I would happily dump some skills into umd but I cant. My int gives me 1 skill per level so that I dont have 0. I also threw my first favored class into an extra skill rank for first level so i could have diplomacy and perception.
ViConstantine wrote: Matt2VK wrote: Heal Skill - No one really uses that in combat. Actually I don't know too many people that actually puts more then 1 or 2 ranks in it as spells are so much better.
Casting in combat - Just hide behind the person you're healing. They provide cover and if you have cover, you don't provoke AO.
...or you can cast your touch spell, move up, and then apply your spell to the target. All Touch spells are 'charge spells'. They are held till used.
A fair amount of the Merciful healing can be replaced with the Restoration Domains 1st level power Restoration Touch. It's not as flexible but you do get it at 1st level instead of having to wait levels for Merciful.
It's a trade off and you have to be the person to decide if it's worth it.
Hiding behind someone in combat so i can heal them wont be helpful to anyone if they are surrounded, which happens more often then not in our games so when i have to charge up to help them out with heals, there is no "behind them" the merciful healer combat medic bonus has given me a lot of help in the past and thats why its become my first choice every time ive rebuilt this character. If you are not being threatened you can still cast your cure spells. Move up to the surrounded person and then apply the spell. Wizards do this all the time with their offensive damage spells. Why can't clerics do this with their heal spells? Actually they can, people just forget.
Then theirs also your channeling to heal.
Rod of Lesser Extended Reach. What this does is extend the reach of 3rd level and lower spells by 1 step. So your Touch spells now have a Reach of 30'.
ViConstantine wrote: These are pretty wonderful spells you have suggested I wont lie, though, my biggest reason for the dip is to help with either my speed problem or my weapon/armor problem, or both. The traits I currently have picked are Vengeful- +1 dmg if I attack anything that hit me in the last 24 hours. I have a friend playing a fighter in one of our other campaigns who absolutely ABUSES this to the point where you would never think it would be as good as it is, my other trait is holy symbol tattoo as I dont need a holy symbol to cast and rather can have it tattooed on my characters weapon hand or something so that I can cast while holding things like weapons or shields. To solve the speed problem AND add great offense: Boots of Speed (12,000gp)
Does this GM run a campaign with a typical type of enemy? If so, a level 1 ranger will give you favored enemy and all the weapon and armor proficiency you need. This will also give you access to Wands of Long Strider.
The Unchained Barbarian is a GREAT class for a dip. You can rage to add +2 temp hitpoints per hit die you possess. That's a fabulous defensive action while boosting your offense.
ViConstantine wrote: Matt2VK wrote: Your Speed problem -
Dump a couple ranks into UMD and pick up a Wand of Longstrider. Longstrider gives a +10 enhancement bonus to movement and lasts 1 hour.
Without the UMD, requires a Druid or Ranger to casts.
Work around if you don't want to put ranks into UMD and play the odds before the wand works for you. -
There is a Ioun stone that will hold a first level spell cast into it. Give someone the Ioun Stone that's able to cast this spell. Have them use the Wand on the Ioun Stone. You then take the Ioun Stone and use the spell stored in it.
Sorry, can't remember the name of this Ioun Stone and not really at a place I can look it up.
Thats a pretty interesting answer for it I suppose. My original plan if I cant fix any of it immediately was to get boots of striding once i could afford them. This is a neat option, I would happily dump some skills into umd but I cant. My int gives me 1 skill per level so that I dont have 0. I also threw my first favored class into an extra skill rank for first level so i could have diplomacy and perception. If you have someone in your party with UMD or levels in Druid/Ranger, you can try the Ioun Stone trick. Don't think that Ioun Stone is very expensive and after you use it for your Longstrider you can put any 1st level spell in it and pass it off to anyone in the party. Lots of neat tricks you can use this way.
Matt2VK wrote: ViConstantine wrote: Matt2VK wrote: Heal Skill - No one really uses that in combat. Actually I don't know too many people that actually puts more then 1 or 2 ranks in it as spells are so much better.
Casting in combat - Just hide behind the person you're healing. They provide cover and if you have cover, you don't provoke AO.
...or you can cast your touch spell, move up, and then apply your spell to the target. All Touch spells are 'charge spells'. They are held till used.
A fair amount of the Merciful healing can be replaced with the Restoration Domains 1st level power Restoration Touch. It's not as flexible but you do get it at 1st level instead of having to wait levels for Merciful.
It's a trade off and you have to be the person to decide if it's worth it.
Hiding behind someone in combat so i can heal them wont be helpful to anyone if they are surrounded, which happens more often then not in our games so when i have to charge up to help them out with heals, there is no "behind them" the merciful healer combat medic bonus has given me a lot of help in the past and thats why its become my first choice every time ive rebuilt this character. If you are not being threatened you can still cast your cure spells. Move up to the surrounded person and then apply the spell. Wizards do this all the time with their offensive damage spells. Why can't clerics do this with their heal spells? Actually they can, people just forget.
Then theirs also your channeling to heal.
Rod of Lesser Extended Reach. What this does is extend the reach of 3rd level and lower spells by 1 step. So your Touch spells now have a Reach of 30'.
Im picking up selective channeling as soon as possible so that I can heal from a distance but my cha isnt high enough for me to rely on channeling to heal all the time. the phylactery of positive energy I think its called is one of my goal items to give my channeling a boost. my level ups (if we ever go that far) at level 20 will give my wis 20 max and my str 14 max before magic items so my spells will be pretty fantastic. The rod of lesser extended reach might come in hand for sure.
ViConstantine wrote: Matt2VK wrote: ViConstantine wrote: Matt2VK wrote: Heal Skill - No one really uses that in combat. Actually I don't know too many people that actually puts more then 1 or 2 ranks in it as spells are so much better.
Casting in combat - Just hide behind the person you're healing. They provide cover and if you have cover, you don't provoke AO.
...or you can cast your touch spell, move up, and then apply your spell to the target. All Touch spells are 'charge spells'. They are held till used.
A fair amount of the Merciful healing can be replaced with the Restoration Domains 1st level power Restoration Touch. It's not as flexible but you do get it at 1st level instead of having to wait levels for Merciful.
It's a trade off and you have to be the person to decide if it's worth it.
Hiding behind someone in combat so i can heal them wont be helpful to anyone if they are surrounded, which happens more often then not in our games so when i have to charge up to help them out with heals, there is no "behind them" the merciful healer combat medic bonus has given me a lot of help in the past and thats why its become my first choice every time ive rebuilt this character. If you are not being threatened you can still cast your cure spells. Move up to the surrounded person and then apply the spell. Wizards do this all the time with their offensive damage spells. Why can't clerics do this with their heal spells? Actually they can, people just forget.
Then theirs also your channeling to heal.
Rod of Lesser Extended Reach. What this does is extend the reach of 3rd level and lower spells by 1 step. So your Touch spells now have a Reach of 30'.
Im picking up selective channeling as soon as possible so that I can heal from a distance but my cha isnt high enough for me to rely on channeling to heal all the time. the phylactery of positive energy I think its called is one of my goal items to give my channeling a boost. my level ups (if we ever go that far) at... A 14 CHA is usually plenty for selective channeling. That's a +2 modifier so you can select out 2 bad guys. Your party should all be targeting the same target to drop them as fast as possible.
Matt2VK wrote: ViConstantine wrote: Matt2VK wrote: ViConstantine wrote: Matt2VK wrote: Heal Skill - No one really uses that in combat. Actually I don't know too many people that actually puts more then 1 or 2 ranks in it as spells are so much better.
Casting in combat - Just hide behind the person you're healing. They provide cover and if you have cover, you don't provoke AO.
...or you can cast your touch spell, move up, and then apply your spell to the target. All Touch spells are 'charge spells'. They are held till used.
A fair amount of the Merciful healing can be replaced with the Restoration Domains 1st level power Restoration Touch. It's not as flexible but you do get it at 1st level instead of having to wait levels for Merciful.
It's a trade off and you have to be the person to decide if it's worth it.
Hiding behind someone in combat so i can heal them wont be helpful to anyone if they are surrounded, which happens more often then not in our games so when i have to charge up to help them out with heals, there is no "behind them" the merciful healer combat medic bonus has given me a lot of help in the past and thats why its become my first choice every time ive rebuilt this character. If you are not being threatened you can still cast your cure spells. Move up to the surrounded person and then apply the spell. Wizards do this all the time with their offensive damage spells. Why can't clerics do this with their heal spells? Actually they can, people just forget.
Then theirs also your channeling to heal.
Rod of Lesser Extended Reach. What this does is extend the reach of 3rd level and lower spells by 1 step. So your Touch spells now have a Reach of 30'.
Im picking up selective channeling as soon as possible so that I can heal from a distance but my cha isnt high enough for me to rely on channeling to heal all the time. the phylactery of positive energy I think its called is one of my goal items to give my channeling a boost. my level ... Heh...actually so you see...we um....typically my party always kind of just spreads out, everyone picks someone and just whales on them, everyone gets a little competitive so it turns into who can drop as many as possible.
ViConstantine wrote: Hiding behind someone in combat so i can heal them wont be helpful to anyone if they are surrounded, which happens more often then not in our games so when i have to charge up to help them out with heals, there is no "behind them" the merciful healer combat medic bonus has given me a lot of help in the past and thats why its become my first choice every time ive rebuilt this character. Other means on how to heal without provoking in lieu of Merciful cleric...
Life Oracle:
Channel Energy - Heals at range without provoking
Lifelink - Heals at range without provoking
Lesser Rod of Reach Spell - heals at range
Safe Curing Revelation - can pick this up via a wondrous item
Shaman (Life Spirit as base spirit):
Channel Energy - Heals at range without provoking
Lifelink - Heals at range without provoking
Lesser Rod of Reach Spell - heals at range
The boon of the shaman is that you can get a feat to nicely boost Spiritual Weapon to strike at your shaman level as your BAB for it and get +2 damage on the top.
A level 3 shaman with a Lesser Rod of Furious Spell strike for 1d8+7 damage with a spiritual weapon (with the Spiritual Guardian feat).
And a level 4 shaman is all full of daily GM surprises as you start swapping around your Wandering Spirit.
Rory wrote: ViConstantine wrote: Hiding behind someone in combat so i can heal them wont be helpful to anyone if they are surrounded, which happens more often then not in our games so when i have to charge up to help them out with heals, there is no "behind them" the merciful healer combat medic bonus has given me a lot of help in the past and thats why its become my first choice every time ive rebuilt this character. Other means on how to heal without provoking in lieu of Merciful cleric...
Life Oracle:
Channel Energy - Heals at range without provoking
Lifelink - Heals at range without provoking
Lesser Rod of Reach Spell - heals at range
Safe Curing Revelation - can pick this up via a wondrous item
Shaman (Life Spirit as base spirit):
Channel Energy - Heals at range without provoking
Lifelink - Heals at range without provoking
Lesser Rod of Reach Spell - heals at range
The boon of the shaman is that you can get a feat to nicely boost Spiritual Weapon to strike at your shaman level as your BAB for it and get +2 damage on the top.
A level 3 shaman with a Lesser Rod of Furious Spell strike for 1d8+7 damage with a spiritual weapon (with the Spiritual Guardian feat).
And a level 4 shaman is all full of daily GM surprises as you start swapping around your Wandering Spirit. See thats fair, but im not a shaman or a life oracle, and im not playing either of them. This character was conceived as a cleric and thats part of who she is.
I was taking a second look at the bloodrager it doesnt look like the bloodrager can cast spells while raging that arent bloodrager spells, i dont see anything about my clerical magic being castable while raging.
ViConstantine wrote: See thats fair, but im not a shaman or a life oracle, and im not playing either of them. This character was conceived as a cleric and thats part of who she is. I wasn't sure if you were stuck on merciful cleric due to the thought that was the only way to heal without provoking. I was working to help get you unstuck if that were the case.
There are definitely other reasons to be a cleric, merciful or not.
ViConstantine wrote: I was taking a second look at the bloodrager it doesnt look like the bloodrager can cast spells while raging that arent bloodrager spells, i dont see anything about my clerical magic being castable while raging. The feat Furious Spell allows you to cast those meta'd spells while raging.
Rory wrote: ViConstantine wrote: See thats fair, but im not a shaman or a life oracle, and im not playing either of them. This character was conceived as a cleric and thats part of who she is. I wasn't sure if you were stuck on merciful cleric due to the thought that was the only way to heal without provoking. I was working to help get you unstuck if that were the case.
There are definitely other reasons to be a cleric, merciful or not. Thats fair enough, typically when I make threads on here, the builds i have are what im using and i am never willing to budge much on them, I always have a need to fill or something to add like feats or a second class or something to the character but the typical answers I receive are just people telling me to rework the whole things, this of course is after I spend a few days putting together the characters and like them already.
ViConstantine wrote: I was taking a second look at the bloodrager it doesnt look like the bloodrager can cast spells while raging that arent bloodrager spells, i dont see anything about my clerical magic being castable while raging. This is correct. Bloodrager calls out Bloodrager spells.
Also the Whole Furious Metamagic would not be worth it due to only having roughly 6 or so rounds of rage a day.
ViConstantine wrote: I was taking a second look at the bloodrager it doesnt look like the bloodrager can cast spells while raging that arent bloodrager spells, i dont see anything about my clerical magic being castable while raging. It's not, but your spells are also not castable when you're raging as a barbarian.
...Okay, this is completely crazy, but what about taking a level of draconic sorcerer? You can take the spells feather fall and true strike, because they have no somatic components so can cast them in armor, you'll qualify down the road for Dragon Disciple, and you can take the Theurgy feat to burn those sorcerer spell slots for adds to your cleric caster level.
Now if there only were some way to count your divine spells as arcane...
For offensive punch, why haven't you picked any cleric spells?
There's a number of good ones. Think my favorite is the 2nd level spell Burst of Radiance.
Barbarian would work well with merciful healing: fatigued
ViConstantine wrote: Thats fair enough, typically when I make threads on here, the builds i have are what im using and i am never willing to budge much on them, I always have a need to fill or something to add like feats or a second class or something to the character but the typical answers I receive are just people telling me to rework the whole things, this of course is after I spend a few days putting together the characters and like them already. Understandable.
Here is a summarized shopping list of niceties:
3000gp Lesser Rod of Furious Spell (adds damage to spells and can cast while raging)
3000gp Lesser Rod of Reach Spell (gives the option to heal at range)
8000gp +1 Grayflame weapon (longspear or morningstar if you don't dip)
12,000gp Boots of Speed (movement, offense, and +1 AC to boot)
I still recommend the non-dip route, but if you do, Unchained Barbarian gives you movement, offense, and defense (in lieu of heavy armor). The Lesser Rod of Furious Spell is extra nice that way too. It just seems to cover most of the things you wanted.
ViConstantine wrote: Here are my stats, currently im a level 1 merciful healer with 12 str, 12 dex, 14 con, 7 int, 17 wis and 14 cha. 7 Int? How will he figure out how to do a second class.let alone what he does now?
You don't have to be smart to be religious and swing a weapon.
DrDeth wrote: ViConstantine wrote: Here are my stats, currently im a level 1 merciful healer with 12 str, 12 dex, 14 con, 7 int, 17 wis and 14 cha. 7 Int? How will he figure out how to do a second class.let alone what he does now? I keep hearing argument that because you can't cast durring rage, the barbarian isn't a viable dip, but can't you just unrage for free?
ViConstantine wrote: DrDeth wrote: ViConstantine wrote: Here are my stats, currently im a level 1 merciful healer with 12 str, 12 dex, 14 con, 7 int, 17 wis and 14 cha. 7 Int? How will he figure out how to do a second class.let alone what he does now? I keep hearing argument that because you can't cast durring rage, the barbarian isn't a viable dip, but can't you just unrage for free? Yup! And you'll be fatigued. Casting while fatigued isn't a problem, though, as long as you don't have to make concentration checks.
|
