Reworking guns for my home game

[Talonhawke]

So the setting I have been working with my home game is one that uses firearms more often than base fantasy. However I really don't like having a weapon type critically fail, couple that with the guns being more modern in Na'Nil and I was thinking about ways to work them so that it wasn't a oh oh me me choice for everyone even with them being simple and not being so bad that no one wants them. So I was thinking of dropping the Touch Attack mechanic and dropping miss-fire altogether .

[The Sideromancer]

Problem: now their just expensive crossbows. You should have something that can distinguish them, even if it's not as extreme as touch attacks

[Talonhawke]

Well I would be using the guns everywhere rules so cheaper and can reload the whole thing as a move action but yeah I might need something else.

[Tarik Blackhands]

Something I was vaguely toying with for firearms (and crossbows to a lesser extent) was essentially giving them a penetration quality. Basically Penetration [x] is a weapon quality rolled in with firearms that ignores x amount of armor, shield, or natural armor bonus from the target. A pistol could have say, 3 and a musket 5 (numbers obviously to be tuned).

In theory this keeps the firearms in a happy zone between "utterly trivially hitting 90% of the bestiary" and "louder crossbow"

[Talonhawke]

That could work it still keeps DR useful but helps guns some. Another idea I had was to keep the touch mechanic but add the following other changes 1. A ballistic Weave type upgrade for armors that kept guns from shooting right through. 2. 1/2 of natural armor possibly still applying (more work for me ) or becoming DR/ bullets. All magical bonuses counting to a 3rd Gun AC, Or finally combining Armor and DR and Defense bonus rules to make it more about AC being dodging.

[Tarik Blackhands]

Just be wary of adding too many fiddly bits to guns. Pathfinder already has way too many small fiddly numbers that tweak the math imo (in other words, not too huge on option 3)

Another thing to be wary about is adding too many gun counters to the setting, especially if you normalize their to hit. Outside gunslingers, they're already of dubious effectiveness, add in common counters and expect people to just go back to using composite longbows.

[Imbicatus]

If guns are more advanced, just use advanced firearms. A house rule I've been thinking of using is that if a firearm hits your touch AC but would have missed your normal AC, it does nonlethal damage. It makes armor still useful but guns still can punch through it.

[Claxon]

Talonhawke wrote:

So the setting I have been working with my home game is one that uses firearms more often than base fantasy. However I really don't like having a weapon type critically fail, couple that with the guns being more modern in Na'Nil and I was thinking about ways to work them so that it wasn't a oh oh me me choice for everyone even with them being simple and not being so bad that no one wants them. So I was thinking of dropping the Touch Attack mechanic and dropping miss-fire altogether .

That's how I work it. No misfire chance, no attacks vs touch AC. I allow pistols to reload as a free action (like a bow) and allows rifles to reload as a move (or free with rapid reload).

It's like a slightly better version of a crossbow.

Consider allowing manyshot to work with double barreled versions of guns, allowing you to fire two bullets at once with no extra penalty as part of a full attack action.

Now you've basically got bows, with a proficiency tax and possibly feat tax in the form of rapid reload.

However, I think this is about the level of power I want as a GM.

I want guns to be roughly as powerful as bows, from a game mechanics viewpoint.

[Talonhawke]

Another set of ideas that comes to mind Exploding Dice, not a huge change going forward but can get stupid as well. Or simply make new guns and go from there and work them different in that manner.