You could've just said "Unchained" Summoner only. (Which would exclude "Chained" Summoners and by extension, Synthesist Summoners.) Vigilante is an overrated class anyway.
And to be honest, most any creation rules aren't broken, as long as the GM accommodates the adventures. The only thing this GM is proving is that he values high-powered characters.
My suggestion is to go with Aasimar. From there, I suggest you decide if you want to focus on Single Target Damage, or Area of Effect damage. (This is important, because your character choices are based on this decision.) If the former, go Azata-Blooded Aasimar, and replace your SLA with an increased Charisma (so +2 Dexterity, +4 Charisma). If the latter, go Peri-Blooded Aasimar, and replace your SLA with an increased Intelligence (so +4 Intelligence, +2 Charisma).
With Single Target, go Orc Bloodline Sorcerer. Pick up Blood Havoc and Blood Intensity. This will give you +2 Damage per dice you roll, and you roll an additional number of dice equal to your Charisma for a number of spells per day (doesn't stack with Intensify Spell). With 30 Point Buy, Post-racials, you should have this set-up.
Strength 8
Dexterity 20
Constitution 10
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 10
Charisma 22
Put all of your level-up attributes into Charisma. Specialize in Battering Blast by acquiring Magical Lineage and Wayang Spell Hunter for that spell, as well as Intensify Spell, Empower Spell, Quicken Spell, and Maximize Spell (if possible). Pump your Caster Level as high as possible for Battering Blast (Varisian Tattoo, Bloatmage Initiate, Spell Specialization feats, Orange Prism Ioun Stone, Karma Prayer Beads; Robes of the Summit if you can acquire them). Buff your to-hit with spells like Greater Heroism and Reduce Person. It will be slow at first, but later on in the game, you will be reliably one-shotting Tarrasques every round.
With Area of Effect, go Blood Arcanist with Orc Bloodline. Talk to your GM and see if you can substitute your Bloodline Powers for Blood Havoc and Blood Intensity. Pick up School Understanding (Admixture) as soon as possible (5th level). With 30 Point Buy, Post-racials, you should have this set-up.
Strength 8
Dexterity 10
Constitution 10
Intelligence 22
Wisdom 10
Charisma 20
Put all of your level-up attributes into Intelligence. Specialize in Fireball/Delayed Blast Fireball by acquiring Magical Lineage (Delayed Blast Fireball) and Wayang Spell Hunter (Fireball). Talk to your GM and see if you can start with Magical Lineage (Fireball) and retrain it to Delayed Blast Fireball by using half of the Feat retraining costs. Pump your Save DC as high as possible for your Fireballs (Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, Potent Magic Exploit, Heighten Spell feat). It starts off solid, but unless you maintain your Save DCs, enemies will reliably save against them, and cut your damage output in half (or nullify it if they have Evasion). It's great for dealing with multiple lesser foes at once (figure 3 or more enemies), but it's not very effective when used against few enemies (figure 2 or less enemies).
Hey all im looking the Highest DPR builds. Im trying to prove a point to an online lc that their creation rules are broken but they seem to think that their rules are not broken. So here's the critera: 30PB and no race 20RP or over. the other stipulations is no synthesis summoner and no vigilante class and no core summoner.
Honestly, there's a lot of issues to unpack here. For starters, DPR is a really poor measuring stick for actual power in Pathfinder. While the rules will make *any* character build more powerful, only MAD (Multiple Attribute Dependent) classes really benefit from it. While the increased stats will naturally help those classes, the power boost is more of a convenience than anything. The only real issues with the character creation is that synthesis summoner, the core summoner and the Vigilante (???) are banned while the actually powerful classes, like 9th level full casters are allowed.
The most OP build though in Pathfinder at the moment is a Level 20 Nature Oracle. Their stats are can effectively written as:
Initiative - Goes First
HP - More then all the bestiary entries combined.
AC - Only hit on natural 20 (maybe)
CMD - Higher then any possible CMB
Saves - Only fails on a 1 (maybe)
Save DC - Only Natural 20's need apply
CHA - Pick a 9 digit or higher number of your choice.
Since Oracle is a SAD (Single Attribute Dependent) class, the 30 PB amounts to just a few extra hp/saves/skills/carrying capacity.
Just search for the DPR Olympics thread here on the boards.
Creating an OP build won't prove that their rules are broken, just that you can create an OP character following that guidelines. But that doesn't prove that you couldn't create an equally OP character with more conservative creation rules.
I once played alongside a Barbarian [Armored Hulk] / Alchemist [Beastmorph, Vivisectionist]. It had truly absurd damage output. Just make sure to only use Rage in a pinch.
I agree with what others are saying having a 30pb won't make the broken builds more broken it'll just allow for more varied and less optimised builds to work.
Probably, my most OP character is also the one who can deal the less damage of all my characters.
It'll be easier to help you if you told us what exactly you wanted to do. Do you want a character for a PVP tournament, and want the most powerful thing for that purpose? Or would you rather just theorycraft some potential damage numbers and use that to show people the error of their ways?
This is important, because "Most Powerful Character" and "Highest DPR Character" are two very different things in Pathfinder.
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It'll be easier to help you if you told us what exactly you wanted to do. Do you want a character for a PVP tournament, and want the most powerful thing for that purpose? Or would you rather just theorycraft some potential damage numbers and use that to show people the error of their ways?
This is important, because "Most Powerful Character" and "Highest DPR Character" are two very different things in Pathfinder.
Essentially it seemed he was asking for us to give him a monstrosity to show someone, "See look these rules are broken, you can make this with them!" The issue is that power is relative. If I tell you core only, wizards are still OP. 15pt buy, ok well you cant build MAD now but still most options work. Something is always going to be "best" but in a game where we have potentially billions of combinations of abilities some will be better than others. It only hurts when one player wants to play a totem barbarian with 12 str and skill focus craft:baskets, while the other is an optimal summoner. there are at least a few hundred "optimal builds" plenty enough for tables to work with "op" players. know your players know your table and run to their power and you'll be fine.
Hey all im looking the Highest DPR builds. Im trying to prove a point to an online lc that their creation rules are broken but they seem to think that their rules are not broken. So here's the critera: 30PB and no race 20RP or over. the other stipulations is no synthesis summoner and no vigilante class and no core summoner.
Honestly, there's a lot of issues to unpack here. For starters, DPR is a really poor measuring stick for actual power in Pathfinder. While the rules will make *any* character build more powerful, only MAD (Multiple Attribute Dependent) classes really benefit from it. While the increased stats will naturally help those classes, the power boost is more of a convenience than anything. The only real issues with the character creation is that synthesis summoner, the core summoner and the Vigilante (???) are banned while the actually powerful classes, like 9th level full casters are allowed.
The most OP build though in Pathfinder at the moment is a Level 20 Nature Oracle. Their stats are can effectively written as:
Initiative - Goes First
HP - More then all the bestiary entries combined.
AC - Only hit on natural 20 (maybe)
CMD - Higher then any possible CMB
Saves - Only fails on a 1 (maybe)
Save DC - Only Natural 20's need apply
CHA - Pick a 9 digit or higher number of your choice.Since Oracle is a SAD (Single Attribute Dependent) class, the 30 PB amounts to just a few extra hp/saves/skills/carrying capacity.
Sorry for casting empowered thread necromancy Anzyr, built I have to ask, what is the oracle build that you are talking about?
Sorry for casting empowered thread necromancy Anzyr, built I have to ask, what is the oracle build that you are talking about?Hey all im looking the Highest DPR builds. Im trying to prove a point to an online lc that their creation rules are broken but they seem to think that their rules are not broken. So here's the critera: 30PB and no race 20RP or over. the other stipulations is no synthesis summoner and no vigilante class and no core summoner.
Honestly, there's a lot of issues to unpack here. For starters, DPR is a really poor measuring stick for actual power in Pathfinder. While the rules will make *any* character build more powerful, only MAD (Multiple Attribute Dependent) classes really benefit from it. While the increased stats will naturally help those classes, the power boost is more of a convenience than anything. The only real issues with the character creation is that synthesis summoner, the core summoner and the Vigilante (???) are banned while the actually powerful classes, like 9th level full casters are allowed.
The most OP build though in Pathfinder at the moment is a Level 20 Nature Oracle. Their stats are can effectively written as:
Initiative - Goes First
HP - More then all the bestiary entries combined.
AC - Only hit on natural 20 (maybe)
CMD - Higher then any possible CMB
Saves - Only fails on a 1 (maybe)
Save DC - Only Natural 20's need apply
CHA - Pick a 9 digit or higher number of your choice.Since Oracle is a SAD (Single Attribute Dependent) class, the 30 PB amounts to just a few extra hp/saves/skills/carrying capacity.
Have to admit, I had the same questions, even after looking over said oracle. I couldn't find anything in the class that would lead me to reach those same conclusions...
What AM Barb hasn't showed up yet?
Short version. Use capstone to change yourself to a beast type, use some manner of int drain to drop your int to the point you can cast awaken on yourself, repeat process till you've amassed an arbitrary level of charisma and hd. Triumph.
So...once the character gets him/herself down to 2 INT...are they smart enough to know to cast Awaken (which has a casting time of 24 hours)?
Awaken also has a somatic component...are 2 INT creatures able to speak?
Smells like cheese gone bad.
I agree. Its says in the rules that you need to have minimum 3 int to understand speach, so therefore you wouldn't understand the somatic components needed. Pity. I was so looking forward to a build
Strictly speaking, casting spells simply requires your casting stat be high enough. Specific spells like Feeblemind forbid spell casting in addition to setting your int/cha but not generic drain. It's dumb, but no more dumb than half of the more kludgy rule interactions around.
Yes, but awaken requires a verbal component, which you cannot supply since you have lower than 3 intelligence and therefore are not able to understand speech, and by extension the component.
Silent spell or a rod thereof would fix that issue though.
And by RAW, you could still cast it without silent spell because the only requirement as stated by the magic chapter of the CRB to supply the verbal component is to be able to speak in a strong voice. You don't have to understand what you're saying, just be physically able to.
Sure, RAW you could cast silenced awaken on yourself, but let's be honest, what gm would actually allow this build. There are certainly more overpowered builds, but they actually are were thought out, while this one just involves exploiting a loophole (albeit, an excellent loophole). But to cast this you either need a wand, to be a samsaran, or have a friendly druid/shaman.
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Short version. Use capstone to change yourself to a beast type, use some manner of int drain to drop your int to the point you can cast awaken on yourself, repeat process till you've amassed an arbitrary level of charisma and hd. Triumph.So...once the character gets him/herself down to 2 INT...are they smart enough to know to cast Awaken (which has a casting time of 24 hours)?
Awaken also has a somatic component...are 2 INT creatures able to speak?
Smells like cheese gone bad.
Sorry, the forum gotten eaten so I just saw this now. The actual way to easily cast Awaken once you hit 2 INT is to make it a Contingency. Now, I suspect the follow up question is "How does a Nature Oracle cast Contingency?" There's a lot of ways to cast it, but the easiest at Oracle level 20 is to just duplicate Contingency with Miracle.
Pardon the interruption, but you'll need to make a will save that increases based on the hit dice of the creature being awakened, those hit dice increase by two each time you do this. You'll eventually push your luck and fail to awaken yourself. Granted, depending on your investment into will saves and how far you push your luck this could be a net gain of several small handfuls of d3 charisma and double that in d8 hit dice, but it does eventually hard cap.
Sorry, the forum gotten eaten so I just saw this now. The actual way to easily cast Awaken once you hit 2 INT is to make it a Contingency. Now, I suspect the follow up question is "How does a Nature Oracle cast Contingency?" There's a lot of ways to cast it, but the easiest at Oracle level 20 is to just duplicate Contingency with Miracle.
While you will fail occasionally to Awaken yourself, it will only be a 5% chance (in the event you roll 1), because a simple casting of Bestow Grace or Bestow Grace of the Champion will get you +CHA to Will saves.
Follow the math below:
Base Oracle CHA: 18 + 2(Race) + 5 (Level-up) + 5(Inherent) + 6 (Enhancement) + 6 (Profane*) + 3 (Venerable**) = 45 CHA or + 17 CHA bonus.***
Base Oracle Will Save = +12
Using Bestow Grace or Bestow Grace of the Champion, you can add you CHA to Will Saves. So, base you have +29 to Will Saves
The Will save you have to succeed for Awaken is 10+20(HD) at the start for a starting Will save of 30. You only fail this on a one.
Cast the Contingency Awaken using Sacred Geometry (Maximize) and a Metamagic Rod, Empower. This gets you 2 HD and 3 + 1 (50%) CHA for +4 CHA and +2 CHA Bonus. Because the HD and CHA bonus scale at the same rate of +2, you continue to only fail the will save on a 1. You can mitigate the risk of failing on a 1 by taking advantage of abilities that allow you reroll.
*From the Profane Ascension ability of a Simulacrum of Nocticula.
**You can avoid the physical penalties by reincarnating yourself which you also use to avoid dying of old age.
*** If you do not use the Profane or Age bonuses, you set yourself back +4 to saves. This can be corrected by getting a Cloak of Protection +4 or an Otherwordly Kimono.
So it's a plan to have infinite power so long as you don't roll a 1.
This is not a great plan if in my group.
Then again, statements like "the simplest way is to be a level 20 XXX" always get a laugh.
If you roll a 1 all that does is delay you, the power you can obtain is still infinite. And that assumes you did not take my advice and use rerolls which drastically cuts the chance you waste a day of effort.
That being said getting to level 20 is not especially hard. You simply have to put one foot in front of the other and one corpse behind the next.
Hey all im looking the Highest DPR builds. Im trying to prove a point to an online lc that their creation rules are broken but they seem to think that their rules are not broken. So here's the critera: 30PB and no race 20RP or over. the other stipulations is no synthesis summoner and no vigilante class and no core summoner.
Dear OP,
I agree with you that 30 PB is high, but not crazy so.
It mostly means that you can play MAD classes more easily. SAD classes were already going to start with an 18 or 20 regardless of anything else, so all this higher point buy has done is round out characters some. At the start of play it's unlikely that anyone will have any glaring weaknesses. But these stats become far less important as you level up, and the important bits of the class will make more and more of an impact.
As far as races go...some can be a bit imbalanced. But if we're just going with published races with a printed race points value then there's nothing to worry with. If you allowed to build a custom race, then it can get pretty dicey pretty quick, but a lot of that has to do with many properties in the race builder being either incredibly over valued or under valued. It's not that a 20 RP race build is OP inherently, but some properties which can be available can be imbalanced. But if we're just looking at this list of published 20 RP and less races (besides core races) they include:
Catfolk
Duergar
Gnoll
Grippli
Goblin
Hobgoblin
Ifrit
Kobold
Lizardfolk
Monkey Goblin
Orc
Oread
Ratfolk
Skinwalker
Sylph
Triaxian
Undine
Vanara
Aasimar
Android
Dhampir
Drow (Common)
Fetchling
Gathlain
Ghoran
Kasatha
Lashunta
Shabti
Suli
Tengu
Tiefling
Vishkanya
Wyrwood
Wyvaran
None of those would I consider incredibly powerful on their own.
Something I think we forget, is that no matter how many attacks we get, only the first few are likely to hit a powerful enemy. So let's maximize the potency of that first strike, shall we?
Go with an orc, or some race with decent strength. At higher levels, after a few magic items, assume a strength of 30, so a +10 modifier. This won't end up being too important, except for the purposes of accuracy.
Class doesn't really matter, but you'll want plenty of feats. (So Fighter, maybe?)
You're going to want to invest in these feats:
Vital strike, improved, and greater
Improved called shot, and greater
Other than that, go crazy. You might want some feats or items that improve accuracy.
Pick up a colossal greatsword. The damage dice on this bad boy is 4d6. Have it be a +2 impact weapon, this ups the damage dice to 4d8. Enlarge person makes this 6d6. Finaly, the spell Lead Blades makes this 6d8. Now it gets fun.
Using greater vital strike, you get to roll your damage dice four times. This means you're rolling 24d8 plus whatever bonuses you have! The dice alone are an average of 120 damage, and plus reasonable strength bonuses (strength +10 mod, equals +15 dmg, and power attack another +15 dmg at lvl 16) this comes out to 150 average dmg per strike.
BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE
Now you get to have fun with called shots. If your not familiar with how they work, you take a subtraction to your attack, but if you hit the targeted area, a bonus effect takes place. However, if you deal a number of hp equal to half their maximum, a REALLY bonusy effect takes place. (Hands are cut off, legs severed, etc.) The head effect, among some other combat penalties, is they fall unconcious for 1d10 rounds. This seems awesome, but it pales in comparison to heart shots, where THEY DIE ON THE SPOT.
But, since head shots are only -5, and heart shots are -10, we'll go for the head. If an enemy is low AC, though, go for the heart (of course).
So our damage was 150. Now, as long as the enemy's max hp wasn't 300 or more, they fall unconcious and you can coup de grace them.
If you want to go crazy with this build, dip into rogue to get some sneak attack dice. It doesn't stack for vital strike, but hey, dice are dice.
Hey all im looking the Highest DPR builds. Im trying to prove a point to an online lc that their creation rules are broken but they seem to think that their rules are not broken. So here's the critera: 30PB and no race 20RP or over. the other stipulations is no synthesis summoner and no vigilante class and no core summoner.
Could you post those, please?
Fell for a necro Slim it is 2 years old, I'm sure he moved on :)
Pick up a colossal greatsword. The damage dice on this bad boy is 4d6. Have it be a +2 impact weapon, this ups the damage dice to 4d8. Enlarge person makes this 6d6. Finaly, the spell Lead Blades makes this 6d8. Now it gets fun.
You mentioned that the class didn't matter, so how are you using a colossal greatsword?
If you are medium sized, then the largest weapon you can use is a medium two-handed weapon. (or a large one-handed weapon, or a huge light weapon)
Impact doesn't stack with Lead Blades, and you seem to have your damage dice increases mixed up.
The weapon now normally used for Vital Strike builds is the Butchering Axe, which is a two-handed exotic weapon with 3d6 starting damage. If you're enlarged and use Impact/Lead Blades, that increases two times.
3d6->4d6->6d6
Also, Called Shots is part of an optional rule set.