
Andre Roy |
Shields are always wielded 1 handed in melee so I'm not sure what you are asking for here.
Shield trained simply makes Heavy and Light shield Simple weapon (so great for cleric who are only proficient in simple weapon) and makes Heavy shield a Light melee weapon instead of a 1-handed melee weapon, so reduce two-weapon fighting penalty.

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I'm planning on oversizing a Heavy Shield, but I'm not sure how it interacts with Shield Trained. Normally if a Heavy Shield is oversized, it becomes a two-handed weapon, but the trait makes me treat it as a light weapon which causes some confusion.
I'm just wondering what happens if I oversize this weapon. Do I follow the normal progression based on its "real" size, or do I treat it as starting as a light weapon? Would it become a one-handed weapon since I treat it as a light weapon, or would it become a two-handed weapon because it is a one-handed weapon?

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There are no rules allowing you to wear an oversized shield and gain AC from it. So do you plan on using the shield entirely as a two handed weapon and not a Shield?
If so, it's a two handed weapon instead of one handed and you take a -2.
But since I am Shield Trained, I treat Heavy Shields as light weapons. Oversized light weapons are treated as a one-handed weapons in normal size progression.
http://archivesofnethys.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Shield-Trained
I'm just confused as to whether I treat it as an oversized light weapon, or an oversized one handed weapon.

Darksol the Painbringer |

Actually, per RAW, he could use a Colossal+ sized Heavy Shield, and still treat it as a Light Weapon.
But, like most reasonable things, I imagine the clause was written assuming the Heavy Shield was properly sized.
Taking the Light Weapon clause to extend it to mean "reduce the effort category by 1" is a bit of a stretch, and is also not that the trait says. If it did, you'd be correct. But it simply says it's a Light Weapon, which means A. it most likely assumes appropriately-sized shields (because any other handiness would be incorrect in correlation to the written text), and B. it'd allow the cheese I said originally to take place, which no sane GM, PFS or otherwise, would allow.

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I was interpreting it as allowing me to treat my shield as an appropriately sized light weapon. So making it one size larger would make it an oversized version of a weapon that is considered a light weapon for me. In this way, it could be considered an oversized light weapon, which would make it one-handed instead of two-handed.
The only thing stopping this interpretation seems to be the original weapon classification as a one-handed weapon. But the trait lets me consider it a light weapon, so does it's original size still matter?

Darksol the Painbringer |

I was interpreting it as allowing me to treat my shield as an appropriately sized light weapon. So making it one size larger would make it an oversized version of a weapon that is considered a light weapon for me. In this way, it could be considered an oversized light weapon, which would make it one-handed instead of two-handed.
The only thing stopping this interpretation seems to be the original weapon classification as a one-handed weapon. But the trait lets me consider it a light weapon, so does it's original size still matter?
If it was appropriately sized, that's exactly what it does. If it was over or under-sized, per RAW, you'd still be using it as a Light Weapon. If it's Diminutive, it'd do 0D0. If it was Colossal, it'd do upwards of 3D6 damage (or 8D6 with Enlarge Person and Bashing property). But again, no sane GM would allow that. A lenient GM would allow you to use it one-handed (at least, at my table you could), but if this is for PFS, I wouldn't count on them letting you do it.
There's also the factor that it's still an armor-type item that requires one hand to use for AC as well. Although you might treat it as a Light Weapon, you'd still need 2 (or more) hands to use a Shield for its AC benefit, since you only treat it as a Light Weapon.

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Losing the AC bonus isn't really an issue. I'd use it as a one-handed weapon, while using a proper shield for the other hand. We've agreed it's still a shield for various other effects, so there's only a couple corner cases that I can deal with as they come up. As it stands, I'd be able to one-hand it as a weapon, but I wouldn't be able to wear it as armor because it isn't properly sized to fit.

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I think Barring a home brew (where GM can rule at their discretion) RAI needs to come into play here. This is a trait, so generally worth 1/2 a feat. Anything beyond making heavy/light shields simple weapons while also making a heavy shield (appropriately sized) count as a light weapon, is rather overpowered for 1/2 of a feat.

Darksol the Painbringer |

I think Barring a home brew (where GM can rule at their discretion) RAI needs to come into play here. This is a trait, so generally worth 1/2 a feat. Anything beyond making heavy/light shields simple weapons while also making a heavy shield (appropriately sized) count as a light weapon, is rather overpowered for 1/2 of a feat.
There are so many feats and abilities that are underpowered, or don't even exist as feats, that are overshadowed or exist as traits. Magical Knack/Lineage is one example, Fate's Favored is another, and those are some of the most popular choices among players.
The funny thing is that Traits were originally designed to be a sort of "background" aspect for character development, and that Traits weren't supposed to be some "backwoods" means to stack as many powerful/unique bonuses as possible, which is what the Traits section of the APG states. Here's some relevant text:
Character traits are abilities that are not tied to your character's race or class. They can enhance your character's skills, racial abilities, class abilities, or other statistics, enabling you to further customize him. At its core, a character trait is approximately equal in power to half a feat, so two character traits are roughly equivalent to a bonus feat. Yet a character trait isn't just another kind of power you can add on to your character—it's a way to quantify (and encourage) building a character background that fits into your campaign world. Think of character traits as "story seeds" for your background; after you pick your two traits, you'll have a point of inspiration from which to build your character's personality and history. Alternatively, if you've already got a background in your head or written down for your character, you can view picking his traits as a way to quantify that background, just as picking race and class and ability scores quantifies his other strengths and weaknesses.
Many traits grant a new type of bonus: a "trait" bonus. Trait bonuses do not stack—they're intended to give player characters a slight edge, not a secret backdoor way to focus all of a character's traits on one type of bonus and thus gain an unseemly advantage. It's certainly possible, for example, that somewhere down the line, a "Courageous" trait might be on the list of dwarf race traits, but just because this trait is on both the dwarf race traits list and the basic combat traits list doesn't mean you're any more brave if you choose both versions than if you choose only one.
And yet, here we are, with overpowered and/or blatantly-chosen traits like Reactionary, Fate's Favored, Magical Lineage/Knack, and several others, created in contradiction to the bolded parts I've presented. (Some parts of which are reiterated in other entries of the entire section.)
The way I see it, it's only a matter of time before Paizo cracks down on all of these character traits (probably with the latest printing of Ultimate Campaign) and just nerfs a lot of these options into nigh-uselessness (as they are technically designed to be).

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It's overpowered, but it's society legal so I'm gonna use it.
Yes, the trait is absolutely society legal. However Saying that a large heavy shield is now a 1 hand weapon is not the same as a specific exception to a properly sized heavy shield being used as a light weapon.
The trait is very specific "Heavy shields are considered light weapons for you." That is not the same as saying "you can use a heavy shield as if it were one size category smaller."
Per Raw you could try telling your GM that you can use any Heavy Shield as if it were a light weapon, whether the Heavy shield were Diminutive or Gargantuan does not matter. I think your GM will step forward and rule that is not the intent of the ability. And if your PFS GM does allow that you may find your character is weakened considerably when you're at someone else's table.

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It's overpowered, but it's society legal so I'm gonna use it.
Legal when used correctly.
You are asking to drive out in the pasture of "off the rails" so every PFS game will require a 10 minute explaination of how your character has some creative rules interpretation and whether your GM agrees. If they don't, you will need to operate in their framework. I've played a character like this. An overrun specialists. It gets tiresome.