As in the subject.
Taking -4 to hit is less of a downside when targeting AC 10 to provide a successful Aid another action. Question is if the Aid Another is considered an attack (it is after all listed under the special attacks section) or if it is a standard action that is not considered an attack.
This subject has been discussed before, e.g. Here.
People seem to have differing opinions, however I couldn't find a definitive answer for this supported by devs or faqs. Is anyone able to provide some guidance please?
Oh, and apologies in advance if the answer is out there and my google-fu has proven insufficient.
Glade wrote: As in the subject.
Taking -4 to hit is less of a downside when targeting AC 10 to provide a successful Aid another action. Question is if the Aid Another is considered an attack (it is after all listed under the special attacks section) or if it is a standard action that is not considered an attack.
This subject has been discussed before, e.g. Here.
People seem to have differing opinions, however I couldn't find a definitive answer for this supported by devs or faqs. Is anyone able to provide some guidance please?
Oh, and apologies in advance if the answer is out there and my google-fu has proven insufficient.
You can fight defensively as either a standard or a full round action with the same modifiers which leads me to believe that fighting defensively is itself not an action. I would allow fighting defensively while aiding another as I don't see a rule that would forbid it and it doesn't seem game breaking.
Thanks, I thought so too. If we're correct, that makes the helpful halfling trait and a few other magic items which bump aid another into an interesting team tactic... Cheers. :)
Gallant Armor wrote: Glade wrote: As in the subject.
Taking -4 to hit is less of a downside when targeting AC 10 to provide a successful Aid another action. Question is if the Aid Another is considered an attack (it is after all listed under the special attacks section) or if it is a standard action that is not considered an attack.
This subject has been discussed before, e.g. Here.
People seem to have differing opinions, however I couldn't find a definitive answer for this supported by devs or faqs. Is anyone able to provide some guidance please?
Oh, and apologies in advance if the answer is out there and my google-fu has proven insufficient.
You can fight defensively as either a standard or a full round action with the same modifiers which leads me to believe that fighting defensively is itself not an action. I would allow fighting defensively while aiding another as I don't see a rule that would forbid it and it doesn't seem game breaking. If it is not an action then can you fight defensively while making an attack from a spell, like Scorching Ray or Shocking Grasp?
thorin001 wrote: Gallant Armor wrote: Glade wrote: As in the subject.
Taking -4 to hit is less of a downside when targeting AC 10 to provide a successful Aid another action. Question is if the Aid Another is considered an attack (it is after all listed under the special attacks section) or if it is a standard action that is not considered an attack.
This subject has been discussed before, e.g. Here.
People seem to have differing opinions, however I couldn't find a definitive answer for this supported by devs or faqs. Is anyone able to provide some guidance please?
Oh, and apologies in advance if the answer is out there and my google-fu has proven insufficient.
You can fight defensively as either a standard or a full round action with the same modifiers which leads me to believe that fighting defensively is itself not an action. I would allow fighting defensively while aiding another as I don't see a rule that would forbid it and it doesn't seem game breaking. If it is not an action then can you fight defensively while making an attack from a spell, like Scorching Ray or Shocking Grasp? Yes you can
Fighting defensively is a standard action so it can't be taken together with other standard actions.
Arguably, fighting defensively is meant to be done as part of the Attack Action (as it can also be done as part of a Full-Attack Action), but even then it could not be combined with spells or Aid Another, which don't use an Attack Action.
Quantum Steve wrote: Fighting defensively is a standard action so it can't be taken together with other standard actions.
Arguably, fighting defensively is meant to be done as part of the Attack Action (as it can also be done as part of a Full-Attack Action), but even then it could not be combined with spells or Aid Another, which don't use an Attack Action.
It reads more as like power attack than a specific standard action. There is nothing to suggest that is is a specific action or that it requires a specific attack action as it just says "when attacking" which is nonspecific and would apply to anything with an attack roll.
It doesnt read like power attack at all. It is clearly stated to be a standard action:
Quote:
Aid Another
In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you’re in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action.
Curghann wrote: It doesnt read like power attack at all. It is clearly stated to be a standard action:
Quote:
Aid Another
In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you’re in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action.
I was referring to fighting defensively. Fighting defensively is a combat option that any character can apply to any attack including Aid Another.
Only if Aid Another actually counts as 'attacking'. I don't think it does.
It has an attack roll so I would count it as an attack.
Gallant Armor wrote: It has an attack roll so I would count it as an attack. You're not attacking an enemy, and you're not attacking your friend. You also can't use Aid Another in place of an AoO.
Fighting defensively doesn't say "when attacking an enemy" or "when attacking a being" it just says "when attacking" it doesn't matter if the attack is to harm a foe or to aid another it still counts.
You can use aid another as an AoO if you have the Bodyguard feat.
If someone is fighting defensively it would apply to AoOs as well.
Per the write up, the "attack" in aid another is an attempt to distract a foe from hitting an ally or to interfere with the attack in some way. It would be perfectly reasonable for you to do so while fighting defensively. The penalty for fighting defensively implies keeping your guard up, not fully committing to the attack, etc. There is nothing that would prevent fighting defensively while aiding another.
Fighting Defensively is also it's own standard action:
paizo.com wrote:
Fighting Defensively as a Standard Action: You can choose to fight defensively when attacking. If you do so, you take a –4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC until the start of your next turn.
Link
Curghann wrote: Fighting Defensively is also it's own standard action:
paizo.com wrote:
Fighting Defensively as a Standard Action: You can choose to fight defensively when attacking. If you do so, you take a –4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC until the start of your next turn.
Link
paizo.com wrote:
Fighting Defensively as a Full-Round Action: You can choose to fight defensively when taking a full-attack action. If you do so, you take a –4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC for until the start your next turn.
Fighting defensively can be applied to standard or full round attacks. As such it is like power attack, it isn't it's own action it is an effect that can be applied to other attack actions.
It depends on whether you need to take the 'attack action' or the 'full-attack action' to apply fighting defensively. Clearly the latter is true, which means that fighting defensively only works for full round actions that 'count' as full-attack actions (and the jury is still out on what this applies to).
So the other question is whether 'Fighting defensively as a Standard action' 'when attacking' means 'when you take an attack action', which is a standard action, and thus wouldn't apply to other standard actions that are not the attack action.
Has there been any official declarations regarding this?
I seem to find myself in the same position of wanting to use Aid Another while Fighting Defensively.
It seems like it would be in the spirit of the rules to allow Fighting Defensively on other Standard Action attacks like it is allowed for Full Attack Actions.
Whether it would count for Aid Another depends on whether it's attack roll qualifies it as an attack.
|
3 people marked this as a favorite.
|
excuse the necro, but i’m going to suggest that if aid another in combat is not an attack action then it should not break invisibility.
so, either that, or you can fight defensively with it
richard
Recent threads in Rules Questions
|
