The Alchemist has been quirky from the start, but ever since the release of the Ratkin Opportunist archetype for the Fighter I finally got to ask?
Are bombs now considered extraordinary for everyone rather than supernatural? Or are they still only EX for the Opportunist and still SU for the Alchemist?
It would alleviate a lot of grief with my GM, but I could potentially ask him to create a new Alchemist archetype altogether. I mean I loved the Scavenger Investigator's Gadgetry change to Alchemy, too. But Investigators don't get bombs. We are like so close to an Alkenstar steampunk alchemist it's not even funny...
Given that the ratkin opportunist iss a 3rd pp thing, the problem might be with Adamant turning what's definitely a Su ability (Bombs are Magic ffs !) into an Ex one... I haven't read the full thing on ratkin and the opportunist, though, so there might be a valid reason for the change, but it won't apply across the board.
Given that the ratkin opportunist iss a 3rd pp thing, the problem might be with Adamant turning what's definitely a Su ability (Bombs are Magic ffs !) into an Ex one... I haven't read the full thing on ratkin and the opportunist, though, so there might be a valid reason for the change, but it won't apply across the board.
No, no, no. The Ratkin Oppotunist Fighter is from Blood of the Beast, p.20. That's a Paizo Player Companion book and not 3rd Party. That's why I have this dilemma.
No, no, no. The Ratkin Oppotunist Fighter is from Blood of the Beast, p.20. That's a Paizo Player Companion book and not 3rd Party. That's why I have this dilemma.
I'm assuming i ninja'd your post there, as the link I provided was to that archetype :)
Correct, but then the Alchemist is also "supposed to be" not a spellcaster. Yet they always shimmy that "infused with bits of his own magic aura" into it and we're back at a facepalm moment. :P
I think you'll have to go by RAW, alchemist uses magic bombs, fighter uses non-magic bombs. Nothing is stating otherwise, odd as that may be.
You could probably explain it away by saying the alchemist enhances his bombs with magic, and thats where the damage comes from. Whereas the fighter just packs the bombs with more explosives.
Lady J has it, alchemical admixture is mixing two non magical alchemmical weapons, it has nothing to do with alchemical bombs and can be Ex... the alchemist's bomb ability still remains firmly Su.
I think you'll have to go by RAW, alchemist uses magic bombs, fighter uses non-magic bombs. Nothing is stating otherwise, odd as that may be.
You could probably explain it away by saying the alchemist enhances his bombs with magic, and thats where the damage comes from. Whereas the fighter just packs the bombs with more explosives.
I guess we have to until the Developers say otherwise. But at least we talked about the obvious oddity.
Okay, I just spent the last 4 hours trying to wrap my head around the Developers' thinking. This is what I came up with as a result...
This will be the level progression:
Spoiler:
Level 1 Protector of the People
Racial Heritage (Ratkin) {Human bonus}
Improved Dirty Trick {Fighter 1} BAB +1
Level 2 Point Blank Shot {Fighter 2} BAB +2
Level 3 Precise Shot {Fighter 3} BAB +3
Level 4 - {Investigator 1} BAB +3
Level 5 Splash Weapon Mastery {Fighter 4} BAB +4
Level 6 Brew Potion, Throw Anything {Alchemist 1} BAB +4
Level 7 Two-Weapon Fighting {Investigator 2} BAB +5
Level 8 Precise Bomb {Alchemist 2} BAB +6/+1
Level 9 Improved Two-Weapon Fighting {Alchemist 3} BAB +7/+2
Level 10 Directed Bomb {Alchemist 4} BAB +8/+3
Level 11 Rapid Shot {Alchemist 5} BAB +9/+4
Level 12 Smoke Bomb {Alchemist 6} BAB +10/+5
Level 13 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting {Alchemist 7} BAB +11/+6/+1
Level 14 Fast Bombs {Alchemist 8} BAB +12/+7/+2
Level 15 Technologist {Alchemist 9} BAB +13/+8/+3
Level 16 Stink Bomb {Alchemist 10} BAB +14/+9/+4
Level 17 Extra Discovery (Wings) {Alchemist 11} BAB +15/+10/+5
Level 18 Explosive Missile {Alchemist 12} BAB +16/+11/+6/+1
Level 19 Extra Discovery (Material Mastery){Alchemist 13} BAB +17/+12/+7/+2
Level 20 Explosive Bomb {Alchemist 14} BAB +18/+13/+8/+3
These will be our abilities and skills:
Spoiler:
STR 12, DEX 14, CON 10, INT 18, WIS 11, CHA 12 (20 pt. buy)
+5 Intelligence by Level 20
Fort +13, Ref +15, Will +8
Skill Ranks to spend:
Fighter = 32(24 + 8 to be spent specifically on Bluff, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, or Stealth)
Investigator = 20
Alchemist = 130
The Scoop:
1) Not PFS legal (Vivisectionist is not allowed)
Note: We could potentially make this work using Construct Rider, but then we would have to be able to retrain Craft Construct and probably switch out a feat for Master Craftsman. But it effectively negates the idea of clockwork items.
2) Not designed to be a bomb chucker (as we only get 6 extraordinary bombs). The 6 bombs are to be used as de-buffs or we just focus on other discoveries entirely!
3) Designed to be a Pellet Grenade and Modern Grenade Mad Bomber. We can throw out a LOT of those.
4) Can convert Extracts into Clockwork Gadgets.
The Alchemist extracts can effectively be turned into Investigator Gadgets, because they have a common pool. YAY STEAMPUNK!
5) You must make your enemy lose his Dex bonus or manage to flank him to use your Sneak Attack to be able to dish out the damage.
6) Give the familiar the Decoy, Figment, Sage or Valet archetype (depending on your play-style). It will effectively serve as another means to drop grenades.
7) The Protector of the People feat allows us to be able to create constructs later. We need to create an Alchemical Golem as a Construct Armor to be able to gain more extraordinary bombs.
Given these limitations, how would you guys change the choice of discoveries? On what would you focus instead?
Player Companions are the 3rd Party of Paizo. The individual book developers let a lot more poorly balanced or edited options through without any adult supervision from the main RPG line development team.
It seems clear Ex here is an error that wouldn't have appeared (or would quickly be errata'd) if this had appeared in a big boy product.
