Mystic Theurge Combined Spells

[Davor Firetusk]

Here is the relevant text:
Combined Spells (Su): A mystic theurge can prepare and cast spells from one of his spellcasting classes using the available slots from any of his other spellcasting classes. Spells prepared or cast in this way take up a slot one level higher than they originally occupied. This ability cannot be used to cast a spell at a lower level if that spell exists on both spell lists. At 1st level, a mystic theurge can prepare 1st-level spells from one of his spellcasting classes using the 2nd-level slots of the other spellcasting class. Every two levels thereafter, the level of spells that can be cast in this way increases by one, to a maximum of 5th-level spells at 9th level (these spells would take up 6th-level spell slots). The components of these spells do not change, but they otherwise follow the rules for the spellcasting class used to cast the spell.

Spontaneous spellcasters can only select spells that they have prepared that day using non-spontaneous classes for this ability, even if the spells have already been cast. For example, a cleric/sorcerer/mystic theurge can use this ability to spontaneously cast a bless spell using a 2nd-level sorcerer spell slot, if the character had a prepared bless spell using a 1st-level cleric spell slot, even if that spell had already been cast that day.

Were it not for the example in the second paragraph I would find the intent completely opaque. My question is can I take a spell from my spontaneous class say Bard and cast using a prepared cleric slot that is 1 level higher?

[dharkus]

I'd say yes - it seems to be saying that in one direction you have to do it this way, but then you can assume you can do it in the other direction normally

[Beopere]

You are correct. Note, however, the cleric would have to prepare that spell in that slot, not cast spontaneously.

[Particle_Man]

So presumably an Oracle/Sorcerer/MT would not be able to use the Combined Spells ability?

[Red Metal]

Particle_Man wrote:

So presumably an Oracle/Sorcerer/MT would not be able to use the Combined Spells ability?

Already covered by an FAQ.

[Davor Firetusk]

Excellent thanks

[HavokReigns]

Thread necro. I have a cleric/sorcerer mystic theurge. On the cleric side Using metamagic as a prepared caster doesn't lengthen casting times. If I had an Extended resist energy prepared as a third level cleric spell, when I use a 4th level sorcerer slot to cast it, what is the casting time, standard or full round? If a cleric has a spell prepared with metamagic, can you add more metamagic to it using the appropriate sorcerer level slot as a full round casting time?

Thanks, Havok

[blahpers]

Interesting. I'd say standard, as you aren't using your sorcerer ability to apply metamagic to a spell as it's being cast--rather, you're casting an already pre-modified spell as though it were a sorcerer spell. Similarly, I'd say you could use your sorcerer ability to apply another metamagic feat to it using the appropriate slot and full-round casting time since . . .

Combined Spells (Su) wrote:

The components of these spells do not change, but they otherwise follow the rules for the spellcasting class used to cast the spell.

From a game design standpoint, this makes sense--the sorcerer pays a cost to apply metamagic spontaneously in response to situational needs, but you aren't doing that--you applied the metamagic in a predetermined fashioned the way a prepared caster does. It wouldn't make much sense to pay a cost without gaining anything in return.

[MrCharisma]

I'd say Blaphers' solution works well.

The alternative is that you simply wouldn't get the Metamagic transferred over, eg. You could cast Resist Energy as a 3rd level Sorcerer spell, but it wouldn't be extended. This seems kind-of useless, but it does allow you to cast the spell using Sorcerer spell-slots without having it take up a spell-known-slot.

Personally I'd go with Blaphers' idea, but I may not have though of it on my own so I wouldn't expect that it's definitely right.

This is likely a niche enough case that you'd need to talk to the GM about it (or talk to the player abouut it if you're the GM).

[Thedmstrikes]

Based on the additional information provided in the FAQ, yes, however, there is still the additional +1 for shared spells in the level to cast as a sorcerer. If this takes the metamagiced spell beyond the capacity to cast, then no. Example:

Cure Serious Wounds has metamagic (empower) that brings it to a fifth level spell to memorize, then the sorcerer side would not be able to cast it because the additional +1 shared spells penalty would make it use a sixth level slot that the sorcerer does not have access to.