What distinguishes gods from demigods?

[Ice Cream Golem]

A true deity such as Sarenrae is strongly associated with a particular alignment, rules over a plane, has several domains, and can grant divine magic to their followers.

A demigod is less powerful than a god, can grant divine magic to their followers, may rule over a plane, may be strongly associated with an alignment, and may have several domains.

Aroden gathered an army before he went into the abyss to kill the demon lord Ibdurengian. This seems to suggest that the power difference isn't as great as some seem to think. 100 peasants will not stop and might not slow down a well put together caster in the 10-20 range as the character goes for the other level five-ish character. Aroden isn't a caster, but he is a god and he did grant spells to people. I expect he had some kind of god-related HAX.

So is it a minor difference?

Can a strong enough demigod challenge a god, or will they just get stomped as a rule?

[TimD]

From what I understand of the Golarion cosmology, a demi-god is more akin to a demon lord, archdevil, or empyreal lord. They grant fewer domains and are generally considered less powerful than a full deity, but are still beyond mortal ken.

Keep in mind that several of the more common deities in Golarion used to be less powerful before they "acquired" additional powers by defeating (sometimes devouring) another deity or entity of great power (ex. Lamashtu was a demon lord before she killed Curchanus and took the power over beasts aspect of his divinity). So to answer your final question, in general a demi-god will probably not defeat a deity in a straight up contest, but the lines get blurry the further from standard mortality you get (mythic to demi god to full deity).

Also, from what I've read Aroden was indeed a spellcaster - Aroden's Spellbane is one of the most prominent "must have spells" for high level casting considerations.

[Jokey the Unfunny Comedian]

Gods are roughly twice as big.

[Nathan Monson]

Demigods have stats; gods do not. therefore, demigods can be affected by PC's, while gods can only be affected by acts of narrative

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

Nathan Monson wrote:

Demigods have stats; gods do not. therefore, demigods can be affected by PC's, while gods can only be affected by acts of narrative

You win this thread, Nathan.

[ClingClong]

I believe a mechanical distinction is that demi-gods give their clerics access to a reduced number of domains.

[Haladir]

Deities grant five domains; demigods grant four.

[dharkus]

so by that definition mythic PCs become a demigod if they pick Divine Source the max of 3 times - and deities broke the rules and picked it a 4th time

[James Jacobs]

dharkus wrote:

so by that definition mythic PCs become a demigod if they pick Divine Source the max of 3 times - and deities broke the rules and picked it a 4th time

That actually isn't defined.

A demigod is a divinity that grants 4 domains and 4 subdomains and has a unique stat block that is CR 26 to CR 30.

A PC who takes Divine Source will never reach CR 26. They aren't demigods, even if they take Divine Source a number of times to grant 4 domains and 4 subdomains. Creatures of CR 25 or lower that can grant spells haven't had a category in print, but the name should probably be "quasi-deity."

In order to become a full demigod, a mythic PC would have to do something special and significant AND work with the GM to get that set up, and then would transition upon making that success (such as by passing the Test of the Starstone, or by doing something equally outlandish) would gain a brand new hand-crafted unique stat block.

Pathfinder's rules don't currently support this type of play, or the creation of a PC demigod beyond simply using the monster design rules in the Bestiary. So once you head into this realm, it's pretty much 100% house rules.

[Orfamay Quest]

dharkus wrote:

so by that definition mythic PCs become a demigod if they pick Divine Source the max of 3 times - and deities broke the rules and picked it a 4th time

Not all differences are definitions. One of the differences between penguins and albatrosses is that albatrosses fly and penguins do not.

But not everything that flies -- for example, a dragonfly, or an Apache helicopter -- is an albatross. And not everything that doesn't fly -- for example, a hedgehog, or a tuna sandwich -- is a penguin.

[Nezzmith]

James Jacobs wrote:

A PC who takes Divine Source will never reach CR 26. They aren't demigods, even if they take Divine Source a number of times to grant 4 domains and 4 subdomains. Creatures of CR 25 or lower that can grant spells haven't had a category in print, but the name should probably be "quasi-deity."

I'm fully aware the answer to my question might be obvious, like "However you feel is best.." but as a GM running a Mythic Campaign on the side, I've been wondering...

If a Quasi-Deity has a fervent worshiper who believed fully in their cause and dies while trying to further their goals, what might Pharasma do with the worshiper's soul?

Send it on to the Aligned Plane that closely matches the Quasi-deity's Alignment? Keep it around in the Boneyard until the 'Quasi' forges a realm of it's own as a demigod? Hand it over to another deity that's taken interest in the Quasi?

I'd love to hear your take, just for comparison and inspiration!

[Orfamay Quest]

Nezzmith wrote:

If a Quasi-Deity has a fervent worshiper who believed fully in their cause and dies while trying to further their goals, what might Pharasma do with the worshiper's soul?

Send it on to the Aligned Plane that closely matches the Quasi-deity's Alignment? Keep it around in the Boneyard until the 'Quasi' forges a realm of it's own as a demigod? Hand it over to another deity that's taken interest in the Quasi?

Well, the second is unreasonable, since there's no guarantee that the Quasi will ever be able to forge such a realm.

If another deity has taken an interest in that worshipper's soul,... well, the background states that

Quote:

Some souls come having already made their choices via their actions and beliefs, while others with more conflicted natures — or pre-existing pacts to specific entities — make their decisions at the advice or temptation of infernal and divine suitors, who are eager to sway their spirits in one ideological direction or another, or with Pharasma’s direct arbitration if need be.

... so ultimately, it's a case-by-case basis depending upon the specific soul, with Pharasma herself having ultimate authority.

[Davia D]

Demigods seem a lot more... mortal-ish, if that makes sense.

A demigod can threaten gods, but can in turn be threatened by mortals, while a god can't.

A demigod is gonna live somewhere, they're a physical being, most still eat, hold court, etc., and when they go somewhere, they're actually going somewhere (they may have proxies, but still, most of the time it's them).

A god may be somewhere, but it's much less likely that they'll engage in what we think of as a normal life, in that I can't think of any who seem to do so. I picture a lot of them sitting in a throne or such projecting their thoughts, or spending time in non-physical forms, only manifesting when they have something that needs it. They may be 'present' somewhere like the heart of their realm, but they may be a bundle of divine energy and not a body for all I know.

Gods also seem relatively unrooted to specific areas- mostly it's only the young, recently ascended gods who care about specific conflicts and such in Golarion, and even then, they don't exactly do personal visits. Visions and such, sure, but compare to the Worldwound or Irrisen, where Deskari has personally shown up in the past and plans to come through again, and where Baba Yaga visits every 100 years. Aroden was the most active manifester we know among full gods, and even there he appeared less and less as time went on and mostly did so to fight Demigod-level types.

Also, finally, full gods seem more bound by rules/each other. The gods seem to have something of a nonaggression pact going against direct interference (I'm unsure if this is stated, or just implied by their actions, but they act much as if they do, Aroden being an exception and as noted, mostly against demigods at that). Demigods seem like they have a freer hand in things, most of the plans we see put into effect are launched by demigods. Cheliax? Not Asmodeus directly, brokered by one of his Demigod subordinates. Serpent Skull? Wrath of the Righteous? Heck, there's even a nation *way* down south that prospers via Empyreal Lord patrons, so it's not even just the evil ones who get in on the act.

Those are the differences that come to mind for me.

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

dharkus wrote:

so by that definition mythic PCs become a demigod if they pick Divine Source the max of 3 times - and deities broke the rules and picked it a 4th time

The definition of being a full diety is that rules don't apply to you. You transcend mechanics, and become a creature that's pure story device.

[James Jacobs]

Nezzmith wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

A PC who takes Divine Source will never reach CR 26. They aren't demigods, even if they take Divine Source a number of times to grant 4 domains and 4 subdomains. Creatures of CR 25 or lower that can grant spells haven't had a category in print, but the name should probably be "quasi-deity."

I'm fully aware the answer to my question might be obvious, like "However you feel is best.." but as a GM running a Mythic Campaign on the side, I've been wondering...

If a Quasi-Deity has a fervent worshiper who believed fully in their cause and dies while trying to further their goals, what might Pharasma do with the worshiper's soul?

Send it on to the Aligned Plane that closely matches the Quasi-deity's Alignment? Keep it around in the Boneyard until the 'Quasi' forges a realm of it's own as a demigod? Hand it over to another deity that's taken interest in the Quasi?

I'd love to hear your take, just for comparison and inspiration!

Pharasma judges all souls, including quasi-deity souls. Usually, a quasi-deity will either go on to be a powerful force in the service of their divine patron if they had/served one, or might go on to be something else. It's unique and different every time.

[dharkus]

Orfamay Quest wrote:

dharkus wrote:

so by that definition mythic PCs become a demigod if they pick Divine Source the max of 3 times - and deities broke the rules and picked it a 4th time

Not all differences are definitions. One of the differences between penguins and albatrosses is that albatrosses fly and penguins do not.

But not everything that flies -- for example, a dragonfly, or an Apache helicopter -- is an albatross. And not everything that doesn't fly -- for example, a hedgehog, or a tuna sandwich -- is a penguin.

that's what they want you to think - one of my best friends is a hedgehog penguin, and another is an albatross helicopter!

[Daw]

Gods are beyond the rules. Their effects stay within the rules or the world is broken. Most gods, for whatever reason, aren't interested in breaking the world. Those that ARE interested in breaking the world face concerted opposition from the rest of the gods. Rovagug is imprisoned, Dahak neutralized, and Azathoth (who may not really be aware of the world in any way would find meaningful) is somehow kept away.

Gods are mostly proof vs munchkin and murderhobo, even with a pliable GM.

[Davia D]

Daw wrote:

Gods are beyond the rules. Their effects stay within the rules or the world is broken. Most gods, for whatever reason, aren't interested in breaking the world. Those that ARE interested in breaking the world face concerted opposition from the rest of the gods. Rovagug is imprisoned, Dahak neutralized, and Azathoth (who may not really be aware of the world in any way would find meaningful) is somehow kept away.

Gods are mostly proof vs munchkin and murderhobo, even with a pliable GM.

Also the one god we know is considered to have reign to meddle with mortals, the red mantis one, keeps to a very specific remit with it.

[dysartes]

Ice Cream Golem wrote:

Aroden isn't a caster, but he is a god and he did grant spells to people. I expect he had some kind of god-related HAX.

Errm, last I checked pre-divine Aroden was meant to have been a Wizard (or other arcane caster) who happened to like hitting things with a sword, for some reason...

[Duncan7291]

When a god loves a mortal very much the stork brings them a little bundle of joy, a demigod!