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Brolof wrote:
Priest Class? Is that 3rd party, or are you referring to a specific archetype of Cleric?

Yup 3rd party.


First off, know that I mean no offence to anyone with the christian faith. I consider myself a cultural christian and seek to respect people's perspectives in general. Disclaimer out of the way...

So I'm playing Hell's Rebels and the first book I played a priest class who had sacred tenets. Goodness over justice over punishment over wrath. As the campaign rolled along he became more and more cognizant of the corruption in Kintargo and as such became more and more of violent person. During his punishment phase I started calling him "Punisher Jesus" as a joke and I really liked playing him that way. He would heal with the right hand and smite with the left.

But he was killed at the end of book 1 and I rolled up an inquisitor class build from one of the NPC's that my priest had converted to the faith of Milani. This inquisitor was hell bent on finishing his priest's mission and was all about wrath. He got unlucky and got killed as well.

My DM has offered me the opportunity to resurrect either character at level 5 which would make them the Milanite equivalent of Jesus. The resurrected saviour of Kintargo. I just think it's so cool to have an actual miracle occur in Kintargo. I love how these deaths enrich the story world.

So my question is how do I build level 5 Jesus in Pathfinder? I figure he would be modelled after Aroden who is clearly Golarion's messiah figure.


Here is an example of a sorcerer I played and drew: http://imgur.com/Gz9nXE9

To have your character immortalized in art, I figure that's worth about $50.

Reply below to inquire.


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I use the office printer to print all my characters and all my GM materials.


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Confident? We got a dog with rabies and a squid on a couch!


I believe a mechanical distinction is that demi-gods give their clerics access to a reduced number of domains.


To a drunk guy trying to pick up a chick who is mildly interested in him. (I'm at a bar).


I've known two players who played gnomes. They were both new to Pathfinder. I think they liked the idea of being able to be goofy and silly and have that justified. The results were mixed.


Guillermo Del Torro.


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SheepishEidolon wrote:
ClingClong wrote:
Which leads to another question, other than reducing AC what can be done to weaken monsters and with the CR rating being distorted by the changes made, how do you know how weak is too weak?

Hmm, some ways to weaken encounters come to my mind:

1) Remove one or two creatures.
2) Apply the young template.
3) Apply the degenerate template (same link).
4) Don't force them into many encounters per day.
5) Be careful with foes which are simply immune to popular attacks (sleep, sneak attack etc.). You can add them, but make sure to also use others where those attacks work.
6) Be careful with foes which deny PCs' actions (trip, paralysis etc.) or which do potentially very high damage for their CR (x4 crit of a scythe, four natural attacks of a gargoyle etc.). There will be much less casualities if the PCs have a chance to escape (without leaving someone back).

CR is a solid guideline, but it's just that - a guideline. Start with relatively easy encounters (CR = their PC level) and increase the pressure from there. You will notice when they struggle...

This is very helpful! It's going to go straight to my google drive for reference. Thanks a lot!


SheepishEidolon wrote:

Psychopomps are servants of fate - they don't have to engage in battles at all. For players it's more rewarding to win on their own, anyway. So I'd stick with the shoki as written, and in combat it might just watch or help with detect spells respective protection from evil.

If you want a psychopomp fitting to a level 3 party, a nosoi (CR 2) would also be an option. It's very stealthy, can speak with dead and could throw in a single sound burst per day. Heck, maybe even a player will want this one as a familiar in the future...

Hey thanks for the input. When the players get to level 3, they will have had plenty of encounters they got to win. And they'll need an NPC they can talk to. But I like your idea of the Shoki acting more as an observer.

So that means I need to scale back the monsters. Which leads to another question, other than reducing AC what can be done to weaken monsters and with the CR rating being distorted by the changes made, how do you know how weak is too weak?


I want to make adjustments to this NPC to make him an ally to my party who I expect will be about level 3 when they encounter him. He will serve as their guide through Uskwood.

In Uskwood the party will encounter vampires, Zyphen cultists and a number of ghost-like monsters (still working on specifics).

I want to challenge the players very hard and give them the Psychopomp for backup, but I don't him to be overpowered. I want to the encounters to be deadly but balanced.


Daw wrote:
So the party needs to create a faction of cult hunters to eliminate any who try to initiate your campaign.

That would be an appropriate alternative solution.


Hey this is a great way to give to the community!

My character's name is Ryodei. He is an Aasimar priest of Milani. The Aasimar are essentially of angelic descent. They mostly look human except their eyes are pure white. And sometimes under the right lighting a faint halo is visible above their heads. My character has pure white hair but is a handsome 23 year old man. He wears clean but unadorned light colored vestments (ie. a priest's robe). He does wear leather bracers decorated with roses. The bracers magically glow a soft pink. In order to dissimulate his religious inclination (Milanites are illegal in this area of the inner sea) he places a fresh rose as a broach on his outer garment. Ryodei is a man of the people. He seeks only to heal and help. His heart is sincere and pure. It should be noted that Ryodei has taken a vow to never wield a weapon.

As for tips for the game, I would suggest if you are new to read Golarion lore. The Inner Sea Primer is good for this. It's good to learn about the rules of the game, but if you are playing in the official pathfinder setting, knowing about the setting will greatly enhance your imagination.

Best of luck!


I never fudge rolls but I fudge stats. A hit is a hit, but how hard it hits is up to me.


They are wonderful!


bitter lily wrote:
ClingClong wrote:
bitter lily wrote:

It's interesting, yes. I love gods campaigns.

However, it seems like the PCs win mostly by refusing to play. "Oh? If we engage in this quest, we'll bring Rovagug back? Maybe we shouldn't, after all." Or did I get it wrong?

Well if they don't play, Mengkare (with Pharasma's help) brings about a 1000 year golden age. But the golden age is racial. For humans only. So it's fascism with a friendly face that eventually leads to world war.
Uh, that's not exactly what your doc indicates. Under his entry, you wrote, "His plan is to use the adventurers to get to the starstone without risking his own safety..." At least, I read that as implying that as long as the PCs stop trying to reach the starstone, the world is safe.

Ok good eye. I did do more on this subsequently. If the adventurers don't go, he'll find more volunteers or risk his own people to do the deed. He'd rather not kill his own but will if needed.


avr wrote:
Shatter, any damaging spell which can target an object. I did notice a spell which does weaken objects though when I ran a search - Break.

Thanks!


avr wrote:
Ropes and straps would usually be broken by spells rather than weakened. It sounds more like a function of the disable device skill, which can be assisted by spells though, Pilfering Hand for example.

Which spell would break a rope or strap?


Like a spell to weaken a rope or a leather strap for instance?


I have attached the latest draft: http://i.imgur.com/i4seIdU.jpg

Thanks to everyone who is engaging me in this topic. It means a lot and is very helpful.


blashimov wrote:
Seems pretty cool, but hard to give specific feedback. Sounds pretty large in scope, might or might not be hard to have players stay on the rails. Also unless it's high level, it often quickly begs the question of why don't the gods just do the things themselves.

The reason the gods don't do it themselves is from a selfish and foolish motivation to hide their shame. Pharasma's f$%* up reveals the fallibility of the gods and so most of the gods do not want mortals to know this as it spreads doubt and mortals lose faith when they doubt the gods and when the gods don't have worshippers, they have no power.


Ventnor wrote:
How much of this tangled web of plots will the players be aware of at the beginning? Not the PCs, but the players?

Essentially none of it. The players meet Pharasma in the first session, they meet Mengkare's envoy but have no info on the larger picture. They go on adventures to help a small town. From there it is largely a sandbox campaign that takes them to locations where sacred poems are found. These poems were written by Pharasmin apostates centuries ago. They magically trigger visions that reveal truths. This is how the players learn of the cosmic conspiracy.

When a poem is found, I have a slideshow prepped that explains what's going on at a deeper level. The slideshow represents the vision the players receive. So over several levels the players learn about the plots and meet other mortals with whom they can discuss this and ally themselves to.


bitter lily wrote:

It's interesting, yes. I love gods campaigns.

However, it seems like the PCs win mostly by refusing to play. "Oh? If we engage in this quest, we'll bring Rovagug back? Maybe we shouldn't, after all." Or did I get it wrong?

Well if they don't play, Mengkare (with Pharasma's help) brings about a 1000 year golden age. But the golden age is racial. For humans only. So it's fascism with a friendly face that eventually leads to world war.


In addition to all that has been said already (with which I agree) personally, I really like the idea of an NPC being around to gently nudge the PCs in the direction of the main plot.

Even if it's just to say: "Hey guys, check this out!"

Like in Skyrim, your follower will say something like "A cave, maybe we should check it out!"


Milani of course. She's on the side of the oppressed. She cares.


If we're assuming I get ported to Golarion as is, then I would worship multiple deities, appealling to different ones for different reasons.

However, if my person would get cartoon-ified before moving to Golarion, I would pay hommage to Abadar and worship Shelyn.


crown of the world = Antartica. :P


I start with character concept first and choose my mechanics to translate that concept into the story world. That way, the mechanics are a form of RP.


Cpt_kirstov wrote:
As I understand it there are disagreements between designers with how a gold dragon could do The Glorious Endeavor. We have been told not to expect much detail written about Hermea until these disagreements are worked out. I don't think there is enough detail for a good map

In my campaign, I'm turning the Golden Experiment into a racial thing. Only humans allowed. Fascism with a friendly face.


Just wondering


Is there such a thing?


MAJOR OVERHAUL HERE: http://i.imgur.com/uddciFP.jpg

How am I doing?


Is it that major deities are immortal and minor deities can die?

As in, major deities are more like embodiments of inviolable laws of reality where as minor deities embody mutable principles.


Hi everyone,

Inspired by your speculation on Aroden's death in another thread, I decided to create a campaign premise. I made a flowchart describing it and I would like your feedback.

Thanks! Flow chart here: http://i.imgur.com/ewcjVjW.jpg


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Kalindlara wrote:
They're not listed on the site because they're deity-specific, and d20pfsrd can't post stuff related to Golarion-specific flavor. You can find the specific bonuses on page 25 of Pathfinder Player Companion: Cohorts and Companions. They're all fairly simple stuff; +1 or +2 on a skill, or saves against specific effects, or damage rolls with specific weapons, and so forth.

Thanks for your help!


I found a write up on this here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric

And the mechanics of proselytizing are simple enough but can not find any info on what advantages it grants to the person who successfully converts an NPC to their faith.

Thanks!


I only ever bought one 3rd party product. That's the priest class PDF.

I needed it because I wanted to play a priest in Hell's Rebels. Paizo had no rules to help me put this together so I bought what was available.

I really like it!


The Raven Black wrote:
Occult realms has some, but more of the daily business type rather than grand designs ;-)

Anything helps. Thank you.


So I read the material on Hermea that is on the Pathfinder wiki but find there is not that much lore written on this region.

I have the Inner Sea Primer and the Inner Sea world guide. But there is so little mentioned about this Island.

Any info on Hermea will help. Thank you.


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"Foucault's Pendulum" by Umberto Eco

I'm a bout a third in and still can't quite suss out the main plot. But a few paragraphs blew my mind. So I keep reading.


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Adjule wrote:
I was going to write up a big long thing, but I'm not gonna bother. It's obvious that I am not enlightened and am doing things wrong. So back to basically lurking for me, again.

I tried it. It was amazing. There was a lot of sharing and collaboration. I felt like others made an effort to understand my perspective and we didn't get lost in the details at all. No one extracted anything from my comments to distort the meaning or anything like that. All in all, it was a great experience and I can say I would do again in an instant as I felt understood and I learned a lot from it. Very satisfying, 5 stars.


It was totally worth it to open my heart to y'all. So long and thanks for all the fish.


kyrt-ryder wrote:
ClingClong wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
ClingClong wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
See, I've always seen classes as an invisible metagame thing. Your list of classes doesn't have to make one lick of difference to your character's story aside from informing what abilities they have.
I know that's how you see it, to see it that way. I also am able to see other ways. And I think you are missing out on a richness of experience available to those willing/able to look at it from a perspective different to yours.

Could you highlight how a world where people walk around with their classes metaphorically float over their heads is a rich experience?

You've piqued my curiosity here. Maybe something like DotHack?

I am not particularly inclined to do so. I made my argument, you made yours. You make your decisions, I make mine. You are at liberty to dismiss me as a fool. Full stop.
If I were going to dismiss you a fool I would have done so. You got me curious about that sort of world in a Tabletop setting.

Ok, I will believe you and hope that you are not trolling and baiting me. We shall see if my hope was misplaced.

I will do my best to explain to you the way I see it.

I mean no offence when I say the following. I say it out of a degree of respect: You appear stuck in a literal thinking rut. The materials of the game, rules, mechanics, classes and so forth are there for you to springboard into the realm of the imagination.

To quote Grant Morrison: "Metaphor is one of a group of problem-solving medicines known as figures of speech which are normally used to treat literal thinking and other diseases."

Now I'll quote the Pathfinder core rulebook on page 9 in the "getting started" section. : "The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game is a tabletop fantasy game (...) Think of it as a cooperative storytelling game." And: "The Most Important Rule - The rules in this book are here to help you breathe life into your characters and the world they explore. (...) Remember that these rules are yours."

I mean, they put that there for a reason. It is a statement of intent. Because they know that allowing yourself to look at the game from this perspective opens doors to a rich experience. I would hope that gamers are at least giving this point of view a fair shake before dismissing it.

When I say, your class informs your character, a person capable of symbolic thinking should understand this intuitively. But I will try to outline my mode of thinking in a blow by blow kind of way.

Let me zoom out to describe the big picture as I see it. To proceed any further in describing my perspective one must accept the premise that the imagination is important. That it is a valid part of the human experience. That is has a potency which affects our lives in a real way. I would point out as evidence of this countless men who killed and died on war fields in the name of imaginary beings. I would point out the effect works of fiction has on our mode of thinking. Its ability to generate economic growth. Every innovation of mankind starts in the imagination. We have jet planes because we imagined we could fly. In my view, imagination is as fundamental to reality as gravity. And it is equally incomprehensible despite its ubiquitousness.

If I lost you here, drop out. Because the rest of my perspective hinges on this point. It is not a point from which I am willing to budge. All attempts to move me from this position will fail for I have arrived to it only through tremendous effort and pain. I certainly would not ask you to adopt this viewpoint as Truth for there would be no greater sin. I simply request that you recognize it as a valid viewpoint, in a sea of others.

Now that we got that laid out let's scale down and bring it back to game level. The "fluff" is not fluff at all. It is the material with which the fabric of Golarion's reality is made. To draw an analogy between our world and Golarion, the rules of the game are like the laws of physics in our world. That's why I like the term mechanics for the rules. The rules, define the parameters of the imaginary. It truncates infinite possibility into a form that is digestible, usable, comprehensible. The fluff (I have literal hate for that descriptor by the way) has a similar function. Just as physics can not explain all of what you experience as a human being, so do the rules fall short of your experience as a PC in Golarion. The map is not the territory.

Now drilling down further still. What is a favoured class in Golarion? The way I see it is that class is the tendency your character has in life. Think of your character as an actual person in the world. Because, operating on the opening premise, she is. PC and NPC characters have affected my life more than that random stranger on the street whom I will never again see. So who is more real to me if we're measuring realness by effect on my life? The Tengu fighter I spent 9 months interacting with? Or the person who sat next to me on the bus for 28 seconds yesterday?

Just as in our world certain types of people have certain tendencies, so does your character have a certain path laid out ahead of her.

Let me use an example to clarify. How many friends do you know who are the artist type? How many are more of an academic bent? Why are colleges socially divide roughly along intellectual lines? The engineers as a group are in many ways not like those who study the humanities. There is a tendency to these things. A person pursuing a career as an artist will make many decisions that are very different than an engineer's decisions. They will gain different skills. They will encounter different people. They will become different people. Same goes for race. I will have a very different default outlook than a person born asian. That is the tendency of things we observe in the world.

So in a similar way, a Paladin has a tendency. And that is what the rulebook describes when it describes the general direction a Paladin will take. The abilities available to the Paladin as she levels up are representative of a more or less typical Paladin's career path. In the same manner that an artist in our world lives a life that generally resembles that of an artist.

Yes there are exceptions. We could list them all day, and there is generally an interesting reason for this. If you encounter a glassblower with a masters in medicine, would you not be intrigued what is behind this incongruity? Yes, because that is what makes that person that person and not another person.

So now, your Paladin takes a level in Oracle. Why?! What makes that person, that person. I want to know! Show me your imagination!

If you played in my game and wanted to play a character who does not conform to any class tendency, I would get excited and I would ask, why? Because it's an opportunity to tell a story. An opportunity to make the world more alive! To make it richer! But if you just state mechanical reasons... well, I think you can see why I would not consider this to be a particularly rich thing.

Why anyone would pass up something so fascinating and beautiful is beyond me. When I sit at the gaming table with my friends and they offer a piece of their imagination to me... that experience is beyond words. If my friends each offered me 1000$ or an opportunity for me to see a bit of their heart and soul in the imaginary world, I would gladly take the latter without hesitation. I'd rather feel alive and connected to others.

I will dig up and update a comment I made in a different thread: "In my view, pathfinder and ilk are the only non-elite forums where individuals can bond via the imagination. It is very important to me for this reason. I think we lost touch with what makes us human when we stopped telling stories around a fire. DnD, pathfinder, etc... are the only modern equivalent.

There are other such forums but the price of admission is years of dedication. Such as being a musician in a group for instance.

But tabletop roleplay is available to a wide range of societal strata. This is my favourite thing about the game. I can bond with friends via the imagination. They express themselves in their play style, the ideas they come up with for characters, the choices they make that affect the world we created together, I can see their heart and their deep self when I see their imagination. Why ever would anyone pass on this amazing thing is beyond my understanding. Why would you not want to expand your perspective? I have previously had a reductionistic approach to life, it does not compare. I can understand why one would want to do that. Maybe your parents taught you to be afraid of change, maybe you were raised in a strict religious household. I'm drawing up those examples because they both happened to me. But I broke out of that. And boy am I glad I stepped out of my comfort zone! I want my friends to have that too if they don't already.

For me TTRPGs are a platform where we can explore what it means to be alive in the world of the imagination. It is a reminder of the true power we all wield, to transform the world around us. It is the reflection of a world that is not purely mechanical, but also alive!"

I will top it all off with a link to a TEDx talk on the topic of DnD.

And that's why as your GM, I would insist that you imagine an in-world reason behind your Paladin's Oracle level.

Go ahead and disagree. It may not be a worldview that suits you well. But at the very least I think it deserves to be acknowledged as a coherent and valid point of view.


WormysQueue wrote:
ClingClong wrote:
And I think you are missing out on a richness of experience available to those willing/able to look at it from a perspective different to yours.
I'd guess that kyrt already knows this other perspective from former experience and just decided to play from a different perspective because he has more fun this way.

So be it.


kyrt-ryder wrote:
ClingClong wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
See, I've always seen classes as an invisible metagame thing. Your list of classes doesn't have to make one lick of difference to your character's story aside from informing what abilities they have.
I know that's how you see it, to see it that way. I also am able to see other ways. And I think you are missing out on a richness of experience available to those willing/able to look at it from a perspective different to yours.

Could you highlight how a world where people walk around with their classes metaphorically float over their heads is a rich experience?

You've piqued my curiosity here. Maybe something like DotHack?

I am not particularly inclined to do so. I made my argument, you made yours. You make your decisions, I make mine. You are at liberty to dismiss me as a fool. Full stop.


necromental wrote:
ClingClong wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
See, I've always seen classes as an invisible metagame thing. Your list of classes doesn't have to make one lick of difference to your character's story aside from informing what abilities they have.
I know that's how you see it, to see it that way. I also am able to see other ways. And I think you are missing out on a richness of experience available to those willing/able to look at it from a perspective different to yours.
Do you have any idea how patronizing you sound?

I have an idea. I don't mean it that way. But I understand others may interpret it that way. So it goes...


kyrt-ryder wrote:
See, I've always seen classes as an invisible metagame thing. Your list of classes doesn't have to make one lick of difference to your character's story aside from informing what abilities they have.

I know that's how you see it, to see it that way. I also am able to see other ways. And I think you are missing out on a richness of experience available to those willing/able to look at it from a perspective different to yours.


kyrt-ryder wrote:
ClingClong wrote:

You keep sticking on this specific example for some reason. So I'll roll up my sleeves and dig into it with you.

I want to first expand the context. If you choose Paladin as your favoured class from the onset of the game, as your GM I would expect that this choice is explained by your backstory. Your backstory can't be "Because I want such and such a Paladin spell at level 6" or whatever mechanical explanation. I would expect you to imagine something up. I want to be reassured you have an understanding of the type of role you will be assuming in the months to come.

This backstory would explain your choice of Paladin as your character path.

I think this might be part of our disagreement.

I do not believe in 'character paths.' The character is...

... him or herself. The class is nothing more than a bag of rules used to make them work in the game.

If you WANT them to be a Paladin, that's fantastic. If you want something else that's more interesting? Even better.

The character path is set not by class but by backstory. The class happens to be an element of the story. The word Paladin has a symbolic load that must be contended with. If you choose to oppose the symbolic fact that a Paladin is a certain type of being, you need that incorporated into your story. It has nothing to do with class, it has to do with semantics, culture and egregore.

I am describing this in academic-ish terms. To most this is easily intuited. Those who can't intuit this on at least an elementary level should play in games where I am not the GM. Or ask for help in learning this skill or accept the help when offered kindly.

To fail to understand this is, in my view, as egregious an error as mistaking a feat for a spell.


What's default fluff as opposed to fluff?

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