1) If i'm a 20th level fighter and i take deific obedience (Urgathoa) can I use Animate Dead?
2) Does it treat my character level as my caster level for animate dead?
3) Am i right in thinking i can control a total of 80HD worth of creatures?
4) Can I animate dead on a dragon?
5) Does something animated with animate dead retain all its abilities?
6) what are the limitations of this? (seems pretty damn powerful as i am reading it)
Scratch Questions 4 and 5 off the list, think I know the answers to those now having found this
I am curious to know if there are any major drawbacks to picking up deific obedience and suddenly being able to cast animate dead at CL 20 as a fighter (if this IS actually what you do), I mean if I do get animate dead 1/day then its a pretty hefty bonus to my capabilities both in and out of combat...
Also,
7) Do I need to use material components for deific obedience animate dead, or is it a spell-like ability?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I mean, it's alright. Animate dead is a 4th level spell, and casters have been capable of doing things since like level 7.
It's also just zombies and skeletons, the weakest of undead which actually don't scale well up into higher levels.
You can control up to 80 HD worth of creatures, with one creature having no more than 40 HD.
You may see it as powerful, but honestly unless it's for RP purposes those undead are actually going to pretty weak.
And remember, humans/dwarves/etc animate as 1 HD creatures without skills, class levels, or anything else.
|
Scratch Questions 4 and 5 off the list, think I know the answers to those now having found this
I am curious to know if there are any major drawbacks to picking up deific obedience and suddenly being able to cast animate dead at CL 20 as a fighter (if this IS actually what you do), I mean if I do get animate dead 1/day then its a pretty hefty bonus to my capabilities both in and out of combat...
Also,
7) Do I need to use material components for deific obedience animate dead, or is it a spell-like ability?
Mechanically no. It is awesome. However you have to keep up the deific obedience or you lose the benefit. You will eat a lot and need access to rotten food. If you ever miss your minions will get uppity and might eat you.
Also some parties might not like you worshipping an evil deity of undeath.
You can control up to 80 HD worth of creatures, with one creature having no more than 40 HD.
No more than 40 HD isn't really much of a limitation. As long as you have Desecrate up (and a 2nd level Cleric spell shouldn't be too much of a problem at level 20) you can make Bloody Skeleton Cthulhus if you really want.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Cthulhu has 36 HD, so it's not actually capable of being made into a skeleton or zombie by animate dead:
Hit Dice: A skeleton drops any HD gained from class levels and changes racial HD to d8s. Creatures without racial HD are treated as if they have 1 racial HD. If the creature has more than 20 Hit Dice, it can't be made into a skeleton by the animate dead spell. A skeleton uses its Cha modifier (instead of its Con modifier) to determine bonus hit points.
And this is actually important because creatures tend to have higher HD than than CR. Most CR 20s actually have about 24 HD. On average you have to go down to CR 16 creatures to find them having about 20 HD on average.
But it would allow you to make a bloody variant of a 20 HD creature, since they count as x2 HD for the purposes of creation.
Desecrate doesn't help once you hit this high a level (for animate dead).
That being said, even if you could make Cthulhu into a skeleton, it would be...not very good.
It would have 36d8 worth of HP, because it's charisma gets set to 10 by the spell. So Cthulhu would have a grand total of 162 hp, because it gets no bonus HP from high charisma.
It will have a dex of 23 (boosted by skeleton) and will have 10 natural armor from size, but this is a change from what it originally had of 20.
It's unclear what the source of his insight or AC bonuses are, but he probably loses them in the process of becoming a skeleton. Leaving Skeleton Cthulhu with an AC of 18.
He loses all defensive abilities, except ones that skeletons normally get and loses all special attack.
He would have a BAB of 27 though, because of high HD. It would also have 2 claws, 4 tentacles, and a hell of a high strength score.
But ultimately at level 20 it's going to be destroyed rather quickly, so you best hope it gets to act before the enemy gets a hit on it.
Does animate dead actually let you make bloody skeletons and fast zombies as the guide seems to imply?
"This spell turns corpses into undead skeletons or zombies (see the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary) that obey your spoken commands."
If it can make the variants, could you direct me to where it says they can? thanks :)
Does animate dead actually let you make bloody skeletons and fast zombies as the guide seems to imply?
"This spell turns corpses into undead skeletons or zombies (see the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary) that obey your spoken commands."
If it can make the variants, could you direct me to where it says they can? thanks :)
For skeletons, it flat out says you can:
Numerous variant skeletons exist, such as those whose bones burn with an unending fire and those who drip with gore and reassemble themselves over time. Both of these variant skeletons can be created using animate dead, but they count as twice their normal number of Hit Dice per casting. Once controlled, they count normally against the controller's limit.
And for zombies:
Although capable of following orders, zombies are more often unleashed into an area with no command other than to kill living creatures. As a result, zombies are often encountered in packs, wandering around places the living frequent, looking for victims. Most zombies are created using animate dead. Such zombies are always of the standard type, unless the creator also casts haste or remove paralysis to create fast zombies, or contagion to create plague zombies.
The variant skeletons require no additional spells to be cast, but count as 2x the normal number of hit dice. The variant zombies count as the normal number of hit dice, but require additional spells to be made.
@Jeraa
Ah cool, so where exactly did you find those quotes (i'll need the source so i can show it if my GM asks)? (searching the pfsrd comes up with nothing, presumably because their site is crappy at the moment)
So basically i'd need to be able to cast haste or remove paralysis to create fast zombies but nothing extra to create bloody skeletons? Would I be able to create fast zombies by using an item that can cast haste etc?
@Jeraa
Ah cool, so where exactly did you find those quotes (i'll need the source so i can show it if my GM asks)? (searching the pfsrd comes up with nothing, presumably because their site is crappy at the moment)
So basically i'd need to be able to cast haste or remove paralysis to create fast zombies but nothing extra to create bloody skeletons? Would I be able to create fast zombies by using an item that can cast haste etc?
The Bestiary, in the Skeleton and Zombie creature templates. Or the creature entries in the actual PRD, which is usually a better source than d20pfsrd anyway (though it does lack the third party material).
For skeletons, it is in first paragraph under Variant Skeletons. For zombies, it is in the creature description itself, after the stat block.
Anyone know of any good ways for a fighter to be able to cast haste or remove paralysis? (without locking into an archetype, all i've found so far is "Pipes of Shifting Tempo" - would that work for the purpose of creating a fast zombie?)
(Getting confused by animate dead HD stuff, so while I wait for responses to the previous question...)
Bonus question: If I used animate dead (bloody skeleton) on a creature that had 15HD before death, what HD would it have in undeath?
Bonus question: If I used animate dead (bloody skeleton) on a creature that had 15HD before death, what HD would it have in undeath?
Assuming it isn't a creature with class levels, it would have 15 hit dice. It would count as 15 hit dice toward your control limit (which is normally 4x your caster level), but would count as 30 hit dice toward the limit you can animate at once with a a single casting (normally 2x caster level.)
They may also require a larger onyx to animate (animating an undead with animate dead requires an onyx gem worth 25gp per hit dice of the target creature you are trying to raise). I'm not so certain on that part.
(Getting confused by animate dead HD stuff, so while I wait for responses to the previous question...)
Bonus question: If I used animate dead (bloody skeleton) on a creature that had 15HD before death, what HD would it have in undeath?
Assuming it's 15 racial HD, then 15. If it's a 15th level character, then however many racial HD it has. Humans an dother creatures that normally have class levels have 1 HD for the purpose of animate dead.
People make extremely crummy skeletons.
They may also require a larger onyx to animate (animating an undead with animate dead requires an onyx gem worth 25gp per hit dice of the target creature you are trying to raise). I'm not so certain on that part.Oh, so going back to question 7, does the 1/day use of animate dead from deific obedience (Urgathoa) require components or is it a spell like ability? (I assumed halek was saying it didnt require components, but he could have been talking about drawbacks. I thought the (Sp) after "mistress of undeath" meant all gained spells were spell-like, is this the case?)
Mistress of Undeath (Sp) ... ... animate dead 1/day
Still need to know if "pipes of shifting tempo" would allow me to make a fast zombie too.
They may also require a larger onyx to animate (animating an undead with animate dead requires an onyx gem worth 25gp per hit dice of the target creature you are trying to raise). I'm not so certain on that part.Oh, so going back to question 7, does the 1/day use of animate dead from deific obedience (Urgathoa) require components or is it a spell like ability? (I assumed halek was saying it didnt require components, but he could have been talking about drawbacks. I thought the (Sp) after "mistress of undeath" meant all gained spells were spell-like, is this the case?)
Sorry, I was talking about animate dead in general. In this case, as it would be a spell-like ability, there are in fact no components.
Ah, ok then.
Any ruling needed for using Pipes of Shifting Tempo to help create fast zombies?
8) Still would like to know if Pipes of Shifting Tempo can help create fast zombies.
9) Can the variant skeletons "Variants from Classic Horrors Revisited" be created with the animate dead spell?
Anyone know the answers to question 8 or 9?
You can make zombies with more than 20 Hit dice, just not skeletons.
Fast zombie storm giants and Rocs can be handy.
You can make zombies with more than 20 Hit dice, just not skeletons.
Fast zombie storm giants and Rocs can be handy.
Thanks for the response, I'm aware of that... i'm just looking for the answers to questions 8 & 9 now :)
To save you some time scrolling up for context, according to Jeraa: "Although capable of following orders, zombies are more often unleashed into an area with no command other than to kill living creatures. As a result, zombies are often encountered in packs, wandering around places the living frequent, looking for victims. Most zombies are created using animate dead. Such zombies are always of the standard type, unless the creator also casts haste or remove paralysis to create fast zombies, or contagion to create plague zombies."
Question 8 therefore is about whether you can cast it from the item to create a fast zombie. (Though it doesnt seem to state when in the creation process you are supposed to "cast" it... if its anytime after creation then that's pretty cool.)
Question 9 remains a simple question as to whether or not animate dead is limited to skeletons, bloody skeletons, zombies, fast zombies, etc or whether the "Classic Horrors Revisited" variants can be made with animate dead.
The spell has to be cast. Doesn't say how. Ask your GM, but any item that casts the required spell should be all right.
As for Classic Horrors Revisited, look at each type of undead. If it can be created by animate dead, it should say so.
Edit: None of the variants say they can be created with animate dead so no, they can't be created with animate dead. Your GM can determine otherwise, as always.
The spell has to be cast. Doesn't say how. Ask your GM, but any item that casts the required spell should be all right.
Yeah, a lot of items say they make the target(s) gain the effect of haste, but only the pipes seem to cast haste (that I've found) so I think it might be the only way to create fast zombies without having haste on your spell list...
As for Classic Horrors Revisited, look at each type of undead. If it can be created by animate dead, it should say so.
Edit: None of the variants say they can be created with animate dead so no, they can't be created with animate dead. Your GM can determine otherwise, as always.
Ok, so no mudra or archer skeletons? I'm ok with that. Guess i'll make do with bloody skeletons unless my GM is feeling kind. Thanks :)