It's not impossible to move 5 feet in difficult terrain, only to make a 5-foot step. Dodging Panache explicitly isn't a 5-foot step, so it should be usable in difficult terrain. Underfoot isn't as explicit, but I guess I'd still allow it, as it's mentioned that it doesn't count against the mouser's movement.
Man... Thematically you'd think it would. Chairs, Boulders, tables... Swashbuckler shouldn't care. The idea of the Swashbuckler is to dance around an opponent.
I would think it was intended to, but not sure if it needs an errata to do so.
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It's berniti's defense, and fitting given the rocky terrain. Of course it works
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This...
It's not impossible to move 5 feet in difficult terrain, only to make a 5-foot step. Dodging Panache explicitly isn't a 5-foot step, so it should be usable in difficult terrain. Underfoot isn't as explicit, but I guess I'd still allow it, as it's mentioned that it doesn't count against the mouser's movement.
Both Dodging Panache, and underfoot assault say the person can move 5', they do not say the person can take a 5' step. Then additionally Dodging Panache even specifically adds this movement is not a 5' step, a little redundant in my opinion, but certainly confirms it's not a 5' step, so that is out of the way. The next key is that they call out a DISTANCE that can be moved (5 feet) by saying you can move 5 feet. They do not limit you to 5' of movement (speed).
Moving in difficult terrain uses twice the movement of the distance moved. So Moving 5' uses 10' of movement (speed). They are distinct and separate meanings in these instances, to move refers to the distance moved, movement refers to the movement speed required to get there.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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we need an official answer ^^
There used to be a time where we got official answers.
That no longer happens, primarily because when we got them many forum users behaved inappropriately and screamed "that's not what the rules say" instead of recognizing the rules don't say what they think they say.
Your best bet is to get an unofficial answer from an official employee. Both ask for us to not ask rules questions in their threads. Many rules questions still get asked and answered unofficially.
Ask James Jacobs
Ask Mark Seifter
How can i ask them
get a bunch of people to clicky the faq thread (official response)
go to the off topic discussion, look for ask mark seifer thread, ask there.
Get wands of feather step, or buy a pearl of power, hand it to a druid
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move 5 feet most definitely implies moving. however it does not restrict how much movement you can use to move 5 feet, especially when they also call out that making the movement does not subtract from your movement speed available to you during your turn.
You are looking at it as though difficult terrain reduces your movement, which I guess is kind of semantics as it still doesn't matter.
Imagine there's a 10' long Treadmill and you're standing on the back half of it while we're playing 'Simon Says'. Whether the treadmill is going at 20mph or not moving at all if I say "Simon Says move 5 feet up the treadmill" whether you have to take 2 steps and be there, or run as hard as you can for 20 seconds, you still successfully did what 'Simon said' so you keep playing! If you are on the moving treadmill and you take 2 steps, because 2 steps NORMALLY moves you 5 feet, the treadmill throws you off the back and you don't move where 'simon said' so you're out of the game!
So whether the character can 5' step, or only have a movement speed of 5' and thus can not take a 5' step, or even has less than 5' of movement speed and therefore has to take a full round action to move 5'. If he uses a feat or ability that allows him to "move 5 feet" He still moves 5 feet!
"Paizo Says Move 5 Feet" So the character moves 5 feet, even if doing so would normally be an acrobatics check in difficult terrain and cost 20 feet of movement speed. Congratulations, you still successfully did what 'Paizo said', so you keep playing!
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Can I move 5' into a solid wall?
Can I move 5' through a hard corner?
Can I move 5' into the air? Do I need a fly speed? Do I need to make the acrobatics check?
Can I move 5' into another creature's space of my size?
If you are granted 5' of movement and it costs 10' to enter a certain square (due to difficult terrain or something else) then you cannot enter that square. Being granted 5' of immediate movement doesn't allow you to move in an illegal way.
A square with difficult terrain is still 5 feet away . Move 5 feet is different than getting 5 feet of movement.
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As a general rule, distance is measured assuming that 1 square equals 5 feet.
Each square of difficult terrain counts as 2 squares of movement.
At 1st level, when an opponent attempts a melee attack against the swashbuckler, the swashbuckler can as an immediate action spend 1 panache point to move 5 feet; doing so grants the swashbuckler a dodge bonus to AC equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 0) against the triggering attack. This movement doesn't negate the attack, which is still resolved as if the swashbuckler had not moved from the original square. This movement is not a 5-foot step...
You are given 5 feet of movement. Generally this means one square, however you need two squares of movement (or 10 feet) to travel 5 feet in difficult terrain. You are only given 5 feet of movement.
A square with difficult terrain is still 5 feet away . Move 5 feet is different than getting 5 feet of movement.
Perhaps with another ability, but Dodging Panache calls it out as movement.
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Edited for ease of reply.
1: Can I move 5' into a solid wall?
2: Can I move 5' through a hard corner?
3: Can I move 5' into the air?
3b: Do I need a fly speed?
3c: Do I need to make the acrobatics check?
4: Can I move 5' into another creature's space of my size?If you are granted 5' of movement and it costs 10' to enter a certain square (due to difficult terrain or something else) then you cannot enter that square. Being granted 5' of immediate movement doesn't allow you to move in an illegal way.
First, you are NOT granted 5' of movement, you are granted the ability to move 5'. Those are absolutely NOT the same thing!
Now to answer your questions.
1: Yes, IF you are incorporeal, or have some other way to move through solid walls. If not then NO! (Is it a dirt wall in a cave and you have a burrow speed, or are an earth elemental? Then YES you can!)
2: Yes, If you are incorporeal, or have some other way to move through solid walls. Otherwise NO because you actually have to Move 10' to round a hard corner, Even though the final square is only 5' away you have to first move to one side 5' then move forward 5'. So you MOVE 10'. Again this is not the same as movement, since moving 10' could take 10' of movement, or it could take 20' of movement (tumbling/difficult terain), or it could take 40' of movevement (tumbling & difficult terain)
3: Yes you can
3b: Need? No you do not, but if you have a fly speed then you are able to fly 5' into the air!
3c: If you don't have 2b and are trying to get 5' into the air, then yes, you would probably have to jump to get there. Then of course once you are there, since you're not standing on anything you would fall back down. So while the answer is YES, you could do it. How often would you really want to?
4: No, unless of course you had some other feat/ability/(size if you are both small enough) that allowed you to occupy the same square as another creature.
As a general rule, distance is measured assuming that 1 square equals 5 feet.Each square of difficult terrain counts as 2 squares of movement.At 1st level, when an opponent attempts a melee attack against the swashbuckler, the swashbuckler can as an immediate action spend 1 panache point to move 5 feet; doing so grants the swashbuckler a dodge bonus to AC equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 0) against the triggering attack. This movement doesn't negate the attack, which is still resolved as if the swashbuckler had not moved from the original square. This movement is not a 5-foot step...You are given 5 feet of movement. Generally this means one square, however you need two squares of movement (or 10 feet) to travel 5 feet in difficult terrain. You are only given 5 feet of movement.
A square with difficult terrain is still 5 feet away . Move 5 feet is different than getting 5 feet of movement.Perhaps with another ability, but Dodging Panache calls it out as movement.
At 1st level, when an opponent attempts a melee attack against the swashbuckler, the swashbuckler can as an immediate action spend 1 panache point to move 5 feet; doing so grants the swashbuckler a dodge bonus to AC equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 0) against the triggering attack. This movement doesn't negate the attack, which is still resolved as if the swashbuckler had not moved from the original square. This movement is not a 5-foot step...
Dodging Panache is not a teleport, so yes, it requires movment in order to move any distance. You can bold out where it says you are using movement, but in doing so you fail to see that those entries do not limit how far you are able to move.
However the only only entry that places any limits on what can be done is "MOVE 5 FEET" that is a measure of distance, not of movement taken. There is no limiting factor on expending only 5' of movement to get there! Since it even specifically calls out this is NOT a 5' step, that rules out the only option that actually WOULD restrict you to only taking 5' of movement to move 5'.
You can bold out where it says you are using movement, but in doing so you fail to see that those entries do not limit how far you are able to move.
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A square with difficult terrain is still 5 feet away . Move 5 feet is different than getting 5 feet of movement.While this true, the rules are written in the context granting 5' of movement. I'm not aware of any other mechanic that grants movement based on absolute distance. It's always from the perspective of granting 5' of movement. If someone can find a rule that talks about movement based on distance from the previous spot and not as a function of having to spend the movement, then this might work in difficult terrain.
it might be 5' from the point at which you started, but without the PDT confirming this, I'll play it as anything else that grants a movement bonus.
Actually the rules are written to be very distinct about identifying the difference between how far you MOVE (Distance) and how much MOVEMENT (Speed) can/must be spent. IE a 5' step specifically calls out that it can NOT be done if you have to spend more than 5' of movement. Also Jumping specifically calls out even if you can move further (based off your acrobatics check), your jump is limited to movement available. Charge lets you take a double move before attacking, but specifically calls out it does not work in difficult terrain.
If you can find a rule where they permit a specified distance that can be moved but restrict this distance by movement available without also specifically call out that the distance is limited by movement then this might NOT work in difficult terrain.
If, however, you want your argument to be "Everywhere else they let you move they also say it can only use the same amount of movement" Then say that and validate that these do not work in difficult terrain beacuse "The same rule must apply here, because clearly they simply forgot to include it in the text"
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"Move 5 feet" is a measure of both distance travelled and movement granted. It does not say it overrides normal movement rules or difficult terrain rules. It doesn't define itself as different than "movement."
You cannot move 5' to a square that takes 10' of movement, whether that square is 10' away or 5' away.
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I tend to err on the side of Dodging Panache (DP) in difficult terrain not being possible for a normal movement - the 10' element being key.
However, what about using Acrobatics to jump the five foot that is gained using Dodging Panache? Acrobatics is a form of movement and swashbuckler-y:
Action: None. An Acrobatics check is made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.
The swashbuckler should then be able to long jump the 5'.
That would be a DC 5 base for 5'; doubled for having no 10' run up, so DC 10.
Now, in difficult terrain, we also have to add the 'modifiers that apply...concerning the surface you are jumping from.' 'Severely obstructed (cavern, rubble)' sounds like the one we should apply, which adds a further +5, so a final DC 15 Acrobatics check. (or you add that +5 modifier first to the base DC for DC 10, then double that to DC 20?)
This is not guaranteed, but there are clear rules for failure. At higher levels this should be automatic.
Does jumping over difficult terrain work anyway? If so, does this sound plausible as an option, as well as being flavoursomely swashbuckler-y too?
Cheers
O
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The simple solution is to take the following feat:
Nimble Moves
You can move across a single obstacle with ease.
Prerequisites: Dex 13.
Benefit: Whenever you move, you may move through 5 feet of difficult terrain each round as if it were normal terrain. This feat allows you to take a 5-foot step into difficult terrain.
Now the whole argument is moot.