What Do You Want To See from JBE?


Third-Party Starfinder Products

Jon Brazer Enterprises

Jon Brazer Enterprises just signed the Starfinder Compatibility License. So the question is, what do you want to see from JBE?

Races? Spells? Abilities? Adventures? Maybe even a new class or two? Ships? Equipment? Monsters? The sky is not the limit.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So uh, there are three of these threads huh? I guess I'll copy paste my replies to each of them :'D Its bit hard to know for sure what I want since Starfinder isn't released yet so I can't really comprehend my head in what starting books will cover, but I know one thing I will definitely need more of that there can't be enough of.

So regarding Pathfinder, I've avoided buying player material and mostly bought alternate campaign settings and adventures for those. Player material I've avoided because they might not fit Golarion(besides there are tons of pathfinder player options already with that delicious setting flavor) or I have no guarantee they won't be too powerful and I've avoided buying "generic" adventure material since those can't refer to Golarion directly so the flavor connection isn't as strong since they are more useful for me for homebrew campaigns.

Regarding Starfinder, there isn't that problem because space is mind bogglingly huge in scale. Like, 3rd party book featuring a completely new solar system in detail? Very easy to fit somewhere snuggly in space. And in space opera, you want to have tons of options in case players get lost in place, crash their ship, get thrown somewhere through wormhole, or just want to explore uncharted space. With scifi fantasy, you have even more options, like you could find fantasy civilization that wiped itself out in cataclysm, but left behind powerful magical artifacts. Or even low magic world with tech level of modern earth with new alien cultures. Imagination is the limit, and I would definitely need tons of potential material for players to encounter so that space doesn't feel small to them.

So yeah, what I'd want from 3rd party material is:
1) planets and solar systems with fully detailed cultures, ecology, industry/tech/trading/whatever
2) new non familiar(it'd be really boring if every 3rd party developers reveals new variation of space elves) alien races on those planets for pcs to discover
3) mercenaries, pirates, space churches, security companies, megacorps, etc to feature on those planets/space near the planet and statblocks for them. Surely whole setting won't have exactly one type of mercs with exact same tactics.
4) new alien creatures for player to discover and maybe guidelines on how to reskin other monsters so that not every planet has exactly the same creatures(and not every new culture uses same type of robots in exact same manner. Like maybe they have their ships be spherical in shape rather than plane shape)
5) Encounter maps, planet maps, ship maps, maps for different types of encounters would be nice of course :'D

So yeah, too long to read version: moar planets, moar systems, moar new stuff to discover on those planets, finding new alien space gods, encountering unknown ship, encountering variety of magical and non magical planets, etc, there can't be enough of that.

(but yeah, I definitely wouldn't want more pc options right out of gate when I haven't even had chance to see what the out of gate vanilla options play like :D Like I said, new ships for pcs? Doesn't sound interesting. New ships for players to run in dark cold space in encounters? Well there can't be enough of that for sure)


Drown me in options so that I may die happy.


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The things I want to see most of:
Planets/Systems - space is huge, so having lots of places to go would really help flesh out my universe.

Player options are always great.

Mecha.


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I have no expectations. The moment I saw you folks put out a book on half human half-faerie dragon characters, I stopped having any serious expectations.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
I have no expectations. The moment I saw you folks put out a book on half human half-faerie dragon characters, I stopped having any serious expectations.

Yes, half faerie dragons are fun and light characters. Some people enjoy fun characters in their campaigns once in a while. Todd Stewart, the author, wrote it after Horseman of the Apocalypse for Paizo as a way to decompress from such a dark and heavy supplement, and he thanked us for letting him write it.

Our scifi products—from ships, mechs, and space stations to chargen options and our own adventure path—have been well received by the Traveller old guard and the new players alike. And that success is based on listening to our customers, asking them exactly what they want and delivering.

If you are interested in serious products from us for Starfinder inline with what Paizo produces, tell us. We want to hear. If you want something different, tell us. We want to hear.


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I guess this depends on how well the Books of Heroic Races and BoHR: Advanced have sold, but would converting at least some of them to Starfinder be feasible? Maybe releasing them in batches/waves? Since even the non-human Pathfinder core races will be taking a back seat to the Starfinder core races, the rest of the races probably will see minimal development from Paizo for a while.

And since the Starfinder AP is going to be released every-other month, I think side treks and mini adventures would probably be popular too.

I guess a lot of this hinges on whether you and your freelancers have access to the beta/playtest materials so you can start roughing out mechanics now.

Contributor

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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
I have no expectations. The moment I saw you folks put out a book on half human half-faerie dragon characters, I stopped having any serious expectations.

:(


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I wish I got to write something light-hearted once in a while. My products are a tempest of blood and nightmare. And reality isn't helping.

Todd Stewart wrote:
:(

<3

Scarab Sages

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I didn't see Drahliana's comment as a negative.
More as, once you've seen that product, you realise there are no boundaries, except those that a closed mind imposes on itself.

Contributor

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Isabelle Lee wrote:

I wish I got to write something light-hearted once in a while. My products are a tempest of blood and nightmare. And reality isn't helping.

Todd Stewart wrote:
:(
<3

Write some light-hearted fiction/fanfic. I do a -lot- of that, even if I do tend to waffle back and forth between hideous darkness and utter weird whimsy in published stuff. :)

Scarab Sages

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As to the original question, what I'd like to see would depend very much on the specific terms of the Compatibility License, what material is present or lacking in the Core Book and early releases, and what material Paizo decides to keep open or closed.

So it's hard to answer what we're missing, and what you're allowed to create, until all that is known.
But I would echo Corvus, in that attempting to create material that ties too closely to Paizo's home setting could be problematic, in case it is obsoleted by a future official product.

Another galaxy, which can evolve in its own direction, and allows, or better facilitates, styles of play or sub-genres that are not as fully supported by the Paizo material?

Liberty's Edge

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Sub genres, locations (systems, planets and moons,cities), races, equipment and spells

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

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Adventure Supplements!

The other stuff can (and should) come later, but a library of solid adventures would help Starfinder get off the ground quicker.


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100% we need adventures! Character options are good and fine but we are getting APs from Paizo much slower than PF is, we really need published adventures

Jon Brazer Enterprises

Snorter wrote:
what I'd like to see would depend very much on the specific terms of the Compatibility License

Well, this part we know. The SFRPG license is pretty darn close to the same as the PFRPG license with Pathfinder scratched out and Starfinder written in the margin. Which, I am VERY glad about. So nearly anything we want.

Snorter wrote:
what material Paizo decides to keep open or closed.

Paizo has announced a few races (lashunta, androids, ratfolk, etc). It is a fair bet that these will be open content since these are open in Pathfinder. I mean if they don't release these as open content, a SFRPG Compatible publisher can make a lashunta book by referring to the appropriate pathfinder book.

The real question is whether Paizo will release the races that are not already open content. My bet: they will. Why? Its Paizo. They believe things are better open then not.

Having said that, what I expect to be closed content are things like: the terms "Pact Worlds," names of various planets like the homeworld of the lashunta, the timeline, the deities, the gap, etc. So I could have lashunta, but I have to create the world of Lashun for them if I want them in my own setting (should I have a setting).

BTW other publishers, I already called dibbs on Lashun. *crinkles nose to say that I am being silly*

Jon Brazer Enterprises

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So the things I am hearing quite a bit (between here, Facebook, Google+, etc) are:

  • Adventures
  • Adventures
  • Locations to make your own adventures
  • Races
  • Adventures
  • Mechs
  • Even More Adventures
  • Player Options
  • NPCs and organizations to make your own adventures
  • Different campaign settings
  • Did we say Adventures?

Is this about good to start off with?


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Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Snorter wrote:
what I'd like to see would depend very much on the specific terms of the Compatibility License
Well, this part we know. The SFRPG license is pretty darn close to the same as the PFRPG license with Pathfinder scratched out and Starfinder written in the margin. Which, I am VERY glad about. So nearly anything we want.

Is that on the standard S1798?

Jon Brazer Enterprises

Lord Mhoram wrote:
Is that on the standard S1798?

I'm sorry, you lost me with that?


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Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Lord Mhoram wrote:
Is that on the standard S1798?
I'm sorry, you lost me with that?

I thought your post was a reference. M*A*S*H.

"It's not like we want a pizza oven"
"Oh you can get one of those, use a standard S1798 scratch out machine gun and write in pizza oven"

Your comment flowed very much like the line from the show.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

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Lord Mhoram wrote:
I thought your post was a reference. M*A*S*H.

That wasn't my intention, but considering I watched a whole heck of a lot of MASH in my formative years, little phrasings make it into my speech without me realizing it. Which is a good thing, IMO.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

Any other suggestions?

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

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Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Any other suggestions?

I know that adventures will help in the short term, but how do they sell in the long run?

Jon Brazer Enterprises

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Lord Fyre wrote:
I know that adventures will help in the short term, but how do they sell in the long run?

For Starfinder, I don't know. We'll see. ;) And I don't mean that to be flippant. I really do mean, I have no idea.

I am looking at Pathfinder and Starfinder as two completely different entities (like apples and lightsabers different) as far as what to produce and how well those books will sell for many good reasons, but chief among them are these two: 1) as stated upthread there isn't 30 years of material to draw from and 2) Paizo is only putting out 1 adventure path/year and no other support material has been announced so far. Sure, we're going to get a monster book, but that may very well be it.

Because of these two factors, compatible publishers are going to be significantly more important to customers. For those not interested in Paizo's AP, we would be the only major source of material for their game for a solid year.

And let's call a spade a spade here a second. Pathfinder is a mature game system. It will be out for 8 years this GenCon. Paizo is going to want to do a Pathfinder 2e at some point and my guess is they want to launch it GenCon 2019. Between Pathfinder Unchained and Starfinder, I would call these public playtests of material they want to incorporate into the next version of the game. Once Paizo announces a 2e Pathfinder, hardback sales are going to tank. Unless they have something that will be immune to a pre-new edition sales drop, some type of bridge product, something like an alternate game, aka Starfinder.

From my prospective, it seem like Starfinder's 2 main purposes (beyond make a great game) are to test out ideas and to get them over through the transition. Even if they loose money on it, it will be a good investment since development cost put into this game will make Pathfinder 2e better, even if all they discover things that do not work, they will do so without damaging the Pathfinder brand. Take the Summoner for example. I bet Paizo didn't have to go back and do an Unchained Summoner. What if they could have tested out the idea for 2 years instead of just a few short months. That would have made a huge difference.

The real question is for the post Pathfinder 2e transition time frame: will Paizo continue producing Starfinder material once Pathfinder 2e launches? Possibly. I imagine it will depend on how well it sells. Worst case scenario for Paizo would be it will not sell well enough for Paizo to continue past 2019. That would actually be GREAT for Starfinder Compatible publishers. LPJ has said as recently as last year that his d20 modern and future material still sell as if the game never ended. So an audience size too small for Paizo would be a very sizable market for Compatible Publishers and we'd have it to ourselves. So an adventure that would see sales die after its first few months in Pathfinder could see a long and healthy life in Starfinder.

Oddly enough, a worst case scenario for us would be that if it does so well for Paizo that they fully support it as much as they support Pathfinder, especially with a Starfinder Society. With a plethera of 1st party support, demand for compatible support goes down. Simple laws of economics. In this scenario, a Starfinder module would do as well as a Pathfinder one. And there's a whole range of possibilities between those two extremes.

I haven't actually discussed this with my fellow publishers but I am guessing we are all holding our breaths, waiting to see what the next few months of announcements bring. Heck, I'm willing to bet we won't know for sure (except Owen) until PaizoCon.

I know that's a long and rambly answer to your question, but I hope that gives you a more complete picture of what is going through our minds right now.


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Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
I have no expectations. The moment I saw you folks put out a book on half human half-faerie dragon characters, I stopped having any serious expectations.

Yes, half faerie dragons are fun and light characters. Some people enjoy fun characters in their campaigns once in a while. Todd Stewart, the author, wrote it after Horseman of the Apocalypse for Paizo as a way to decompress from such a dark and heavy supplement, and he thanked us for letting him write it.

Our scifi products—from ships, mechs, and space stations to chargen options and our own adventure path—have been well received by the Traveller old guard and the new players alike. And that success is based on listening to our customers, asking them exactly what they want and delivering.

If you are interested in serious products from us for Starfinder inline with what Paizo produces, tell us. We want to hear. If you want something different, tell us. We want to hear.

You misunderstand. I don't believe in telling creative people what they should create unless I'm commissioning something with cold hard cash. I would never have suggested a book of half-faierie dragon characters, but if it sold it just means that I'm not really the person to come to for suggestions on what you should make. Most fans aren't.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
You misunderstand.

Fair enough.

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
but if it sold it just means that I'm not really the person to come to for suggestions on what you should make. Most fans aren't.

I can see your prospective. Having said that, I still like to hear what people are interested in for good reasons. Take half-faerie dragons as an example. I heard some people wish for some way to play a kender in Pathfinder. Todd and I discussed the half-faerie dragon and I knew it would appeal to kender players even though it wasn't a kender because I listened and understood what they were actually after, a race that was so absurd that it was fun. Had I not listened, I might have skittish about HFD and might not have even done them in the first place, but because I had listened to their desires, I was confident in it.

Hearing others talk about what they want makes me more confident in knowing that some crazy idea I have (or a freelancer pitches to me) will be well received. If you want to play van helsing-esque vampire hunter but for robots, I feel confident in creating machine-killing archetype, drawing on sources like Halo and Resident Evil with some West World flare. If no one seems interested in some crazy idea I have, then I'll develop it for myself if I ever have the time and it probably won't see the world beyond my own home game.

So its not so much "tell me what to create" as much as "tell me what I should order art for, give to my editors to make sure my grammar is good, and spend time telling everyone about it." Because if you say, "I want to play Bubba Ho-Tep" and I am not interested in creating anything from Bubba Ho-Tep (bad example, I love Bruce Camball, but I can't think of anything better off hand) then I won't do it and leave it for someone else. But if I want to write it and it seems like no one else is interested in it, I'll write it for myself. But when those two collide, (I want to write it and people want it), I publish it.

Mind you, there are times when I think something is so wonderful that I have to tell the world about it, no matter if I never heard a single world of interest from people before. In those times, I learned to listen to my wife because she is always right when she says, "Nobody will understand a riddle involving an upside down clock and three pieces of cheese cloth. Don't do it."

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

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Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
I know that's a long and rambly answer to your question, but I hope that gives you a more complete picture of what is going through our minds right now.

Thank you for taking the time to give such an informative and thoughtful answer.

So, in answer to your question.

  • Adventures
  • An alternate setting (... not everyone agrees that putting Starifinder in Pathfinder's future is a good idea.)
  • An Adventure Path building on that new setting.


Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Snorter wrote:
what I'd like to see would depend very much on the specific terms of the Compatibility License

Well, this part we know. The SFRPG license is pretty darn close to the same as the PFRPG license with Pathfinder scratched out and Starfinder written in the margin. Which, I am VERY glad about. So nearly anything we want.

Snorter wrote:
what material Paizo decides to keep open or closed.

Paizo has announced a few races (lashunta, androids, ratfolk, etc). It is a fair bet that these will be open content since these are open in Pathfinder. I mean if they don't release these as open content, a SFRPG Compatible publisher can make a lashunta book by referring to the appropriate pathfinder book.

The real question is whether Paizo will release the races that are not already open content. My bet: they will. Why? Its Paizo. They believe things are better open then not.

Having said that, what I expect to be closed content are things like: the terms "Pact Worlds," names of various planets like the homeworld of the lashunta, the timeline, the deities, the gap, etc. So I could have lashunta, but I have to create the world of Lashun for them if I want them in my own setting (should I have a setting).

BTW other publishers, I already called dibbs on Lashun. *crinkles nose to say that I am being silly*

I expect the Paizo in-house campaign to be closed, myself. When I sign the compatibility license, I'm getting a game with options for me to build and publish my own campaign for Starfinder.

I already have one in mind, and I need Paizo to keep their non-rpg elements to themselves. Even their FTL option needs to be closed. The sky is the limit, and I'm expecting a lot of non-rpg elements that Paizo has come up with to be closed. I'm hoping that the Alien Archive will be completely open though.


Based on what I buy from JBE: New Races.

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