I just ask that you post what ever you decide to do and tell us the results for posterity s sake and I hate now hearing the end of a story.
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HOLD UP.
CASTY AM CAUSING TROUBLE FOR GAME BY BEING LIKE, LOOK AT CASTY, CASTY AM ALL BROKE, WHILE AM ALSO DOING SEVEN TO TWELVE UNPOSSIBLE THINGS AT ONCE?
GIVE BARBARIAN LIKE SIX SECONDS. NORMALLY ONLY RAGELANCEPOUNCE FULL 20TH LEVEL CASTYS, BUT WHAT AM ADVENTURER IF NOT ANOTHER WORD FOR MURDER HOBO?
BARBARIAN EFFICIENTLY SOLVING ALL PROBLEMS, ALWAYS.
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Speak with him like a reasonable adult.
As the thread goes on someone will most likely discover that he's either outright cheating or suggest something that will easily shut him down, but nothing will be as painless or effective as simply speaking with the player and establishing the expectations of your game and your group. Besides, playing the Pathfinder arms race gets old quickly.
I was once a player like this, back in 3.5. It took a lot of talking to, reexamining the games that were played and such to see the fact that I was causing problems.
If you can't get through to them, you could stem the tide by interesting the player in other things, like starting a business venture that takes some of their time away. It feels less like a nerf to them, as they are still being productive, but it takes them away from the party from time to time. It is a risky gambit, as they might just try to turn it into yet another advantage instead of dividing their effort/resources.
Also do what am barbarian said^ ... whatever it is he said...
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The point about trust is an important one, and I agree that there are a number of concerning elements about this particular build that suggest a willingness to abuse the rules. The spell resistance check is an obvious one, but for me it is using the Samsaran Mystic Life feature to backdoor in Overwhelming Presence that really stands out.
We can't check stats without knowing the build, but I'm hesitant to blame this one solely on Overwhelming Presence. If all of the plusses check out, why would't Greater Illusion of Trickery, Greater Claim Identity, Gaes-Quest, Cloak of Dreams, Phobia, or Dominate Person have the same effect or close enough to the effect to not make a difference? If the player does remove Overwhelming Presense, are we also going to say he or she can't take any other "yeah, this fight is pretty much over..." spells?
That's not sarcasm. If the idea is to tell the player to move the line in the sand, how far do you tell him or her to go?
Fair point. I guess I was pointing out the player's inclusion of Overwhelming Presence via Mystic Past Life as an indicator that this player is quite willing to use some aggressive cheese to boost the power of his build, which signals that the DM may need to be especially careful of the player using similar tricks in the future.
I wasn't necessarily saying Overwhelming Presence was itself the problem, but rather the method by which the player got it signals an aggressive level fo min-maxing (to me). In fact, I think we agree that the problem is bigger than inclusion of one particular spell.
For me, it's a problem of different approaches to the game. It sounds like the DM and the majority of the group want a more casual approach to optimization, whereas this player has given every sign that he wants to min-max to the hilt. Neither is right or wrong. It's the divergence in these approaches that is the issue to be dealt with, and I only see it being successfully resolved if the player is genuinely willing to significantly scale back his optimization and play in line with the others.
If not, he should probably move on to a different group, for everyone's sake.
1) Full audit to make sure there are no "mistakes"
2) Start doing some solid DMIng and not giving full casters an easy ride!! Archers, Fort/Will saves, sneak attacks... all things that D6 types hate!
You need to audit his character with a fine toothed comb. A lot of this sounds like BS. If you have access to Hero Lab, I'd suggest using it to audit his build and make sure it's legal.
Its not bs Mystic past life into Overwhelming presence from the bards list.
Base init just from some easy choices +5 from diviner, +4 improved initiative +4 familiar +2 trait + whatever dex and you're probably looking at + 17-18 to initiative before even doing anything wonky with magic items or buff spells.
I'm not hugely certain on how their spell pen got that high but you can get halfway there just from feats, so im not surprised by success in beating SR.
Undead and constructs being a more prominent aspect of the campaign can mitigate the spell cheese if overwhelming presence is his one trick pony but something tells me most of these gaps are covered by information we just dont know on the boards. God wizard is god
Using Mystic Past Life to add a spell to your class's spell list that was already there is highly questionable at best.
Player: "I'm adding Overwhelming Presence to the Wizard spell list."
GM: "Overwhelming Presence is already on the Wizard spell list."
