magic item creation - any items, or only ones in the source books?

[Brenden Falke]

This is something I previously discussed with my DM, and we appear to have a difference in opinion:

He claims that you can only craft magic items that exist in the source books. I have not been able to find anything in the magic item creation rules to support this, and in fact if this was the case, why provide a detailed table with magic enchantment costs (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items#Table-Estimating-Magic-Item-Gold-Piece -Values) rather than just go by the price of the item as listed in the source books.

So can I combine any item with any magical effects (from table http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items#Table-Estimating-Magic-Item-Gold-Piece- Values), provided I have the right feats, skills and pay the appropriate amount (including taking into consideration the price of similar items), or can I only craft items that have been described in the source books?

[ryric]

Any item not described in a book is a custom item, and subject to GM approval. So, in essence, your GM is technically correct (the best kind of correct!), in that he or she can veto any item you design. It is perfectly reasonable for a GM to restrict item creation feats to book items only.

That table exists for GMs who wish to create custom items for home games as an aid for determining their cost. Also note that the table is intended as a last resort - the first rule when pricing a new item is to compare it to similar items when possible, as the table can otherwise produce very broken results.

As a GM I allow players to design items, but they have to be approved through me before the PC can create them.

[James Risner]

Your GM is correct.
Also if you are looking at the chart, you are doing it wrong. Only jump to the chart when no other item is similar.

[SheepishEidolon]

As a GM who deals with a player who both wants to craft and enjoys powergaming: What's your intention?

If you just enjoy making up your own items, show the GM your exact ideas. Then it's their decision, and they might become surprisingly liberal. Because people enjoy being in control. There is no guarantee, though.

If you intend to exploit the system to create exceptionally cheap powerful items - it won't fly with a cautious GM. And that's better for all of you. Because trivialized challenges are boring, at least on the long run.

[Brenden Falke]

SheepishEidolon wrote:

As a GM who deals with a player who both wants to craft and enjoys powergaming: What's your intention?

Clearly I have misunderstood the crafting information I read, since I thought it was a crafting system intended for players to use (and I was quite impressed with paizo's thoroughness). I loved the sandbox feeling I got from it. Making my own mark on the world and adding new things to it is something I really enjoy. Afterall, if I am a wizard it would make sense (from an in-character point of view) that I would create a personal staff that exactly fits the style of my character. I feel that any attempts to create unfairly cheap magical items are inherently prevented by the rule "The correct way to price an item is by comparing its abilities to similar items" (so no cheap bracers of continuous true strike).

But from the consensus here it appears that it is not a crafting system for players but for GMs, so it appears that my wizard would be limited to creating items that other wizards before him invented. Copying items rather than creating them, in effect. No originality or surprise. Which for my character is just boring.

Thanks for the clarification guys, I'll avoid the item creation feats!

[Brew Bird]

If you want the feeling of a sandbox wizard inventing things, perhaps you'd like the Words of Power system? It's presented in Ultimate Magic, and, while not as thorough as it could be, is a lot of fun.

There are also types of undead you can customize (Necrocrafts), as well as all sorts of constructs and rules for players building and modifying them.

[John Mechalas]

Brenden Falke wrote:

But from the consensus here it appears that it is not a crafting system for players but for GMs, so it appears that my wizard would be limited to creating items that other wizards before him invented. Copying items rather than creating them, in effect. No originality or surprise. Which for my character is just boring.

I think you are misinterpreting the responses. The table is a set of guidelines for creating things that don't exist, but they are just that: guidelines. Your GM is not obligated to accept them (just like they are not obligated to accept published items, either). You can make something new, but the GM needs to approve it, and in particular the GM needs review the math in calculating its cost.

These things always start with a conversation. If your GM is dead set against anything that doesn't already exist in a published splatbook, though, then that is that. The GM sets the boundaries and rules for the game.

[Gallant Armor]

John Mechalas wrote:

Brenden Falke wrote:

But from the consensus here it appears that it is not a crafting system for players but for GMs, so it appears that my wizard would be limited to creating items that other wizards before him invented. Copying items rather than creating them, in effect. No originality or surprise. Which for my character is just boring.

I think you are misinterpreting the responses. The table is a set of guidelines for creating things that don't exist, but they are just that: guidelines. Your GM is not obligated to accept them (just like they are not obligated to accept published items, either). You can make something new, but the GM needs to approve it, and in particular the GM needs review the math in calculating its cost.

These things always start with a conversation. If your GM is dead set against anything that doesn't already exist in a published splatbook, though, then that is that. The GM sets the boundaries and rules for the game.

+1

Come up with a few ideas that interest you and present them to the GM. Some things may be broken at any price (such as a ring of greater invisibility) and others may be more powerful then the formula suggests and should have a bump in price or a limitation of use to make it balanced.

Your wizard is still the one doing the research, planning and crafting to create something unique.

[Rerednaw]

+1 Since anything is a given setting is subject to GM approval...then yes...however it's all in the presentation.

Sounds like you already had a chat with your GM and he's set against it. Did he state why? If it's 'because the rules say so' then while technically correct, it's more accurate to say 'because I the GM say so.'

If he has a balance concern it's legitimate. One feat, for half price on magic items can have a profound impact on campaign balance. The majority of GMs I play with simply outright ban item crafting.

As a person who loves inventing and making things and giving away gifts I can definitely see the OP's point. When I'm a GM I have never banned crafting.

If the reason is more of a "I'm GM, I'm god, what I say goes and you can't have fun things..." then this becomes a personal issue instead of a Pathfinder rules issue.

I'd try another conversation and make your pitch. If you want to craft a staff that is near and dear to you heart and burn a feat for it, all other things being equal if it doesn't break the campaign and if the GM is reasonable he'll probably roll with it. Maybe there's another player in the group with a history of abusing the crafting system and the GM is afraid to let the genie out of that bottle, IDK I'm not a part of the your campaign.

Good luck!

[CBDunkerson]

There is nothing in the rules preventing you from crafting unique magic items.

However, any such unique creations would require GM approval. The text and tables in the books provide guidelines to help the GM decide how much a unique item should cost.

Thus, if your GM has said that it cannot be done at all, then that's how it is for their game.

[Wheldrake]

Brenden Falke wrote:

Clearly I have misunderstood the crafting information I read, since I thought it was a crafting system intended for players to use (and I was quite impressed with paizo's thoroughness). I loved the sandbox feeling I got from it. Making my own mark on the world and adding new things to it is something I really enjoy. Afterall, if I am a wizard it would make sense (from an in-character point of view) that I would create a personal staff that exactly fits the style of my character.

Not so much.

At least not for all DMs.

There are widely varied opinions on the subject of magic item creation. Some Dms embrace it, and encourage their players to craft (within reasonable and logical limits, most of the time).
Other DMs are scared shtako-less of the prospect of players actually crafting their own gear, especially if it's different gear than what appears in some Paizo book.
In between there are many flavors and degrees of acceptance.

So you shouldn't interpret the responses given here as absolute negativity. The only way to get a real answer is to talk things over with your DM. Reassure your DM that you aren't trying to break anything, just create something unique and individual and personal. I bet that if you are reassuring enough, you can bring even the most recalcitrant DM around eventually.

This said, if you are planning to play in a PFS event, you should know that PFS doesn't allow any crafting at all, for reasons linked to shared world conceptual design.

[Mark Carlson 255]

Brenden Falke wrote:

Clearly I have misunderstood the crafting information I read, since I thought it was a crafting system intended for players to use (and I was quite impressed with paizo's thoroughness). I loved the sandbox feeling I got from it. Making my own mark on the world and adding new things to it is something I really enjoy. Afterall, if I am a wizard it would make sense (from an in-character point of view) that I would create a personal staff that exactly fits the style of my character. I feel that any attempts to create unfairly cheap magical items are inherently prevented by the rule "The correct way to price an item is by comparing its abilities to similar items" (so no cheap bracers of continuous true strike).

Thanks for the clarification guys, I'll avoid the item creation feats!

IMHO, as people have said it is the intent of the new item that can be a big problem. As you pointed out Bracers of Continuous True Strike are very broken.

Having said that some GM's do not like to do things for various reasons. So the GM may so no now because they got burned really bad in the past by allowing players to construct any item or the GM had many arguments with a player about the constructing magic items topic or he could just be a "NO" GM.

In the past what I have seen is most GM's have a problem with constructing and selling items or simply the fact that players who construct their own item pay 1/2 price.

So what I would do is, by email or text to give them time to think about it:
1) Ask him why he says "no"? Is it the price reduction? The possibility of sale of said items? A house Rule? A Game World Rule? The adventure he has planned does not and will not include enough down time for a player to construct said items, etc
(Note 1: I ban some things in my player guide/adventure guide because I the GM know what is going to occur (more or less) and if a player takes feat X, class Y, race Z or trait A it will be very negative for the player or group with what is to come.
Note 2: I have in the past required a player to learn and design formulas for making magic items so as such new items require new formulas. If the GM as a rule like this then he should simply explain it so as you are clear as to the changes)
2) Present the GM with the item and power's you want to make for his comments as it is much easier to say yes to a single item than a blanket yes to everything that is possible.

Again, I know a quite a few GM's that are very cautions on the item creation front as to posters (GM's and players) saying how it has impacted their game.
The most common House Rule I know of is that the PC designing the item gets not reduction in final price as they have to have a lab/workshop in which to construct said item. Even if the PC owns the workshop/lab then do not get a reduction in price do to over head, etc but they can use the profits from said business to pay for the item.

Also some GM's are just stuck in the "No" mode and it is tough to get them off "No"

Good Luck
MDC