I have a build idea that I want to work with. It has certain requirements for flavor purposes:
1. The race must be half-elf, not human (though human would doubtlessly be better) or Tengu (Tengu is banned in the game I'm playing)
2. The character will use Wakizachis (because they're going to be from the far east) and so needs Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
3. Racial Heritage (Tengu) is both flavorful AND required for this character to take the Swordmaster archetype, which is the crux of this build.
The idea is that this half-elf has Tengu blood in her, has feathers and stuff, and is going to be built as a rogue that can get sneak attacks off by charging. High CMB is required for this to work (due to the ability that basically gives her Pounce), so I dipped Lore Warden for bonus feats and extra CMB. I'm also getting the Dirty Strike rogue talent to take advantage of that.
The build at present looks something like this:
Classes:
Unchained Rogue (Scout/Swordmaster) 10
Fighter (Lore Warden) 4
Weapons:
Wakizachi x2 (1d6 18-20 x2, P or S)
Traits:
Reactionary (+2 Initiative)
Carefully Hidden (+1 Will Saves, +2 saves vs. Divination)
Racial traits:
As normal, except…
Ancestral Arms (Exotic WP instead of Skill Focus)
Blended View (Darkvision 60, replaces Multitalented)
Feats/Talents by level:
Lvl 1. R. EWP (Wakizachi), Weapon Finesse (free from Rogue), Racial Heritage (Tengu)
Lvl 2. R. Two-Weapon Fighting (feat from Rogue Talent)
Lvl 3. R. Piranha Strike
Lvl 4. R. Weapon Focus (Wakizachi) (feat from Rogue Talent)
Lvl 5. R. Agile Maneuvers
Lvl 6. R. Offensive Defense (Rogue Talent)
Lvl 7. R. Quick Draw
Lvl 8. R. Dirty Strike (Rogue Talent)
Lvl 9. R. Imp. TWF
Lvl 10. F. Dodge
Lvl 11. F. Combat Expertise (LW), Improved Dirty Trick
Lvl 12. F. Maneuver Mastery (LW ability)
Lvl 13. F. Weapon Spec (Wakizachi) (F), Critical Focus
Lvl 14. R. GTWF (feat from Rogue A. Talent)
I haven't planned past 14. I figure it's unlikely I'll go past that point.
I've been considering options besides GTWF for the level 14 talent, such as Crippling Strike or... something else. That extra attack is unlikely to hit, anyway.
The idea is that this character can charge enemies pretty well thanks to Scout+Swordmaster, as described here...
At 4th level, whenever a scout makes a charge, her attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target were flat-footed. Foes with uncanny dodge are immune to this ability.
This ability replaces uncanny dodge.
Trance (Ex)
At 3rd level, a swordmaster learns to focus her martial prowess using an intense meditative trance. Under the influence of a trance, the swordmaster can perform fantastic martial feats. Entering a trance is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity. The swordmaster can maintain the trance for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + her Wisdom modifier. At each level beyond 3rd, she can remain in the trance for 1 additional round. She can end her trance as a free action. Following a trance, the swordmaster is fatigued for a number of rounds equal to 2 × the number of rounds she spent in the trance. A swordmaster cannot enter a new trance while fatigued but can otherwise enter a trance multiple times during a single encounter or combat. If a swordmaster falls unconscious, her trance immediately ends.
At 3rd level, the swordmaster chooses one trance from the list below. She chooses another trance at 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th level. She can only use one type of trance at a time.
Tiger Trance (Ex): The swordmaster pounces upon her opponents, striking with the ferocity and brute force of a wild tiger. While in this trance, a swordmaster can make a combat maneuver check against an opponent within charge range. If she succeeds, she may charge that opponent and make a full attack against that opponent.
Piranha Strike is important for boosting damage, but I'm a bit worried over how it affects my attack bonus as well.
After charging, this character can move to flank the enemy (if it's still alive), charge at a different target, and generally lay down dirty tricks for free while dealing acceptable damage. I worry about her attack bonus, so I figure flanking and charging will be key to making a dent.
Issues with this, however, involve the full round action to start a trance, the number of trance rounds each day (Wisdom will need to be a positive stat), and this character needs to roll CMB to even try to pounce the enemy. Still, it has potential, and with a maxed out DEX, agile maneuvers, decent BAB, and +2 CMB from Lore Warden, this might be doable.
Offensive Defense is a rogue talent I decided to grab despite it being sub-optimal for fights against large groups. It makes a good talent for a boss fight, I reckon, and it's flavorful (a nimble, dodgy feathery half-elf that jumps around her enemies? Cool!). Is there something that would be too good to pass up, though?
What sort of advice would you have for building this character? What would you do instead? What sort of equipment would be best?
If it helps, I can take a Drawback and get an additional trait.
Piranha Strike is important for boosting damage, but I'm a bit worried over how it affects my attack bonus as well.
Piranha Strike (or power Attack) and TWF don't mix well. Unless you have a very high attack bonus, it's simply not worth it. Remember that the ratio across both weapons is effectively a mere 1.5:1
Offensive Defense is a rogue talent I decided to grab despite it being sub-optimal for fights against large groups.
Not as written, and the FAQ does not make a ruling. But Offensive Defense is only aviable to chained Rogues, which I see absolutely no reason to use.
Offensive Defense is a rogue talent I decided to grab despite it being sub-optimal for fights against large groups.Not as written, and the FAQ does not make a ruling. But Offensive Defense is only aviable to chained Rogues, which I see absolutely no reason to use.
Oh. I see - I misread that and thought it said "Against the struck creature," basically. That's... Different.
But it doesn't work with Unchained? I'll need to find a new talent, then. Any suggestions?
Unchained Rogue is only allowed to select talents printed in Unchained, talents in the list of older talents that can be used unaltered, and newer ones that say they cna be used with UnRogue (although few GMs will disallow rogue talents released post-Unchained that don't specifically mention UnRogue).
Offensive Defense got replaced by the "Disoriented" Debilitating Injury.
I like Emboldening Strike from Blood of Shadows - Rogue has the worst possible base saving throws, so any bonus is nice.
On a side note, I just noticed that Emboldening Strike stacks with itself, just like Offensive Defense does. WTF Paizo? Most GM will probably veto that, but still...
Unchained Rogue is only allowed to select talents printed in Unchained, talents in the list of older talents that can be used unaltered, and newer ones that say they cna be used with UnRogue (although few GMs will disallow rogue talents released post-Unchained that don't specifically mention UnRogue).
Offensive Defense got replaced by the "Disoriented" Debilitating Injury.I like Emboldening Strike from Blood of Shadows - Rogue has the worst possible base saving throws, so any bonus is nice.
On a side note, I just noticed that Emboldening Strike stacks with itself, just like Offensive Defense does. WTF Paizo? Most GM will probably veto that, but still...
Circumstance bonus' cannot stack with each other if they come from the same source as far as I know.
Tinkering a bit again. What's a good feat to boost damage to replace Piranha Strike with?
Are there any obvious problems with the build I'm still not noticing?
Any magic items you'd consider "key" if I do this?
Circumstance bonus' cannot stack with each other if they come from the same source as far as I know.
That's a common misconception one which even the PDT has made in the past), but as written, the "from the same source" thing only applies to untyped bonuses:
Also, it's either boni (the proper latin version) or bonuses (the proper english version).
@Inlaa: Equipment the basics. You don't really need feats that further increase your damage, but rather ones that patch up weaknesses. When in doubt, wait and see what the character actually needs. For isntance, if the campaign is heavy with will saves, take Iron Will.
"Circumstance bonuses stack with all other bonuses, including other circumstance bonuses, unless they arise from essentially the same source."
Let me guess, you copied that from d20pfsrd.com without checking if it's actually written in Pathfinder material, right?
No, I checked, and didn't find it in my 1 minute search.
But as your quote even says
"With the exception of most circumstance bonuses only the better bonus of a given type works. "
So that means that Some circumstance bonuses don't stack.
and "Spells that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes usually do not stack with themselves."
So it's seemingly at least an "unwritten" rule that the same thing can't give stacking bonuses unless it says so explicitly.
No, I checked, and didn't find it in my 1 minute search.
SO you did check, couldn't find a source, and decided to post it anyway, without even a disclaimer or listed source?
It's apparently from the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide (although the first pdf I found said "unless they arise from essentially the same circumstance").So that means that Some circumstance bonuses don't stack.
Sure, but since they didn't give any indication which ones, we can only presume that those are called out. Otherwise, we could argue for any two circumstance bonuses to not stack.
I frankly don't care about unwritten rules you think you see.
As you can see, the section about the same source stuff got added. They could have easily reworded it to disallow all same source stacking. They did not.
Spells have seperate stacking rules, yes. But those don't affect Rogue Talents.
well, have fun with your interpretation and I'll with mine. Hopefully we don't run into many other that we need to play with and disagree with our interpretations.
The difference between us is that my interpretation is soley based on exactly what the rules say, where you need some made up stuff to have any support at all for your interpretation.
The only vague thing is the word "most" and apart from the case that it's probably a leftover from the "same circumstance" rule, doesn't have any wording to even hint at what those exceptions might be. I think its more reasonable to presume that it means stuff like Cultural Adaptation's "[T]hese grant you a +2 circumstance bonus on Diplomacy checks to influence members of the culture to which you have adapted, which doesn't stack with other circumstance bonuses you might possess by virtue of being a member of the chosen culture.", rather than 'make up your own stacking rules'.
I did not say and am not saying that I'd find it unreasonable to houserule it not to stack. I have stated before that I don't think that such things should stack, and I even posted a proposed erratum that would fix the whole thing.
All I'm saying is that RAW, Emboldening Strike stacks with itself, whether we like it or not.
Tinkering a bit again. What's a good feat to boost damage to replace Piranha Strike with?
Are there any obvious problems with the build I'm still not noticing?
Any magic items you'd consider "key" if I do this?