Are there no opportunistic Devils hanging out on the material plane of their own free will making deals for their blood? deals that they know will end with the users more devil than mortal? seems pretty in character to me
I would imagine a merchant with certain capabilities (access to Plane Shift) could acquire lemure quite cheaply while conducting more serious business in Dis.
Dangerous, but you can get a lot of blood from one devil.
It's hard work. But goshdarnit, somebody has gotta do it. How else will all those goshdang adventurin' types get their devil blood for all their mor-al-lee questionable healin' needs?
And that there is where I come in. Me and mine have been minin' this here for generations, ever since the goshdang devil Ghughalbohn was slaughtered by some mythic hero a few centuries back. The devil's blood mixed into the land and the river. And now we are the pre-me-um source of blood!
But if you see any folks wondering around with long arms and mutterin' about smellin' blood, you tell them folks to move along, ya hear!
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]Dangerous, but you can get a lot of blood from one devil.
calls an imp, table has a blood letting dagger, orange juice, a cookie, and a form asking about the imps last 4 contacts with succubi.
I personally don't care for it, but letting the players who want it to feel naughty and clever with this sleaze is probably an effective and cheap way of keeping them on the hook, and won't get their mommies' knickers in a twist. It isn't going to go away.
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Korvosa has imps and variant pseudodragons battling it out in the skies over the city every few days. I have headcanon where roofrunner kids make a few coppers from local talisman shops for collecting the blood and dragon scales to use in building spell component pouches.
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Korvosa has imps and variant pseudodragons battling it out in the skies over the city every few days. I have headcanon where roofrunner kids make a few coppers from local talisman shops for collecting the blood and dragon scales to use in building spell component pouches.
... I think this is actually verified in one of the Tales.
PFS has a ruling that lets you use evil spells without them changing your alignment...
UNLESS they violate some code, oath, or tenant of faith. While paizo has (despite numerous letters) refused to reveal all 101 drunken slurings of calden cayden , i'm pretty sure most good deities are NOT okay with you dipping into the forces of evil without an extremely good reason.
"The profit margin on adventuring" is a great rationale for a cleric of abadar. A cleric of iomadae not so much
Hey for sone dieties dipping into the forces of evil is no different than what is included in their normal portfolio like Sheyln. Apparently, I found the one form of practicing her faith that clerics of her brother approve of.
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]Dangerous, but you can get a lot of blood from one devil.calls an imp, table has a blood letting dagger, orange juice, a cookie, and a form asking about the imps last 4 contacts with succubi.
Don't even need to call one, just grab one via improved familiar
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Might as well list it up,
Things A Wizard Can Do Without Worrying About Alignment Or Morality Nonsense:
- Raise undead
- Infuse themselves with devil blood
- Summon demons into the world
- Protect themselves from good
- Spread disease via Contagion
"Just another days work as Lawful Neutral"
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Well, to be fair here you don't actually infuse yourself with devil blood which has been stated many times in this thread. The blood is used to anoint the target. Which doesn't even happen when cast from a wand.
It's an evil spell that is evil because it is evil. I'd actually like to see more backstory on the spell that fits some of the stories I've seen on the forums that explains the spell.
Celestial healing being a poorly designed spell should have no bearing on infernal healing.
I like that there is a spell that doesn't directly heal. It just grants fast healing. Which means the spell doesn't even heal magically. It also means it can heal undead and construct creatures.
Have to agree with the OP; there would be a lot fewer headaches for everyone if there was an alignment-agnostic spell for short-term fast healing, similar to what 3.5 had. Or barring that, at least make Celestial Healing not be a terrible joke compared to Infernal Healing.
I really don't see why the forces of evil should have a monopoly on cost-effective downtime healing.
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PFS has a ruling that lets you use evil spells without them changing your alignment...*adds entry to the growing list of PFS Bad Decisions*
It prevents the inverse.
If casting a spell with the Evil descriptor is an inherently bad act, it follows that casting a spell with the Good descriptor is an inherently good act.
Protection from Evil has the Good descriptor and no material cost.
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Well, to be fair here you don't actually infuse yourself with devil blood which has been stated many times in this thread. The blood is used to anoint the target. Which doesn't even happen when cast from a wand.It is stated that you do need 50 of each material component when making a wand (see here), so you do need either 50 drops of devil's blood or 50 doses of unholy water that go into making the wand. It's quite possible that the anointing still occurs somehow, whether physically (such as producing it), or simply applying the essence of the evil contained within the blood or unholy water.
It is also stated that material components are consumed by the casting of the spell. Now, really, I think the blood should be a focus instead. But you must apply the focus to the target as part of the touch and thus using the dose.
I'd be fine with the spell could actually causing the devil blood to appear on the target. Then the wand would still interact with blood somehow.
If I had written the spell I'd have made a few changes.
1) It's a conjuration(healing) spell. It should be a transmutation spell as it changes you physically to grant an ability. The ability is what heals you.
2) It uses unholy water when it should probably only use devil blood. As negative energy isn't linked thematically with fast healing. But many devils have fast healing so their blood is linked to it.
3) I'd have written the spell so that it explicitly says you become slightly devilish for the duration which causes you to detect as evil instead of just simply detecting as evil.
PFS has a ruling that lets you use evil spells without them changing your alignment...*adds entry to the growing list of PFS Bad Decisions*It prevents the inverse.
If casting a spell with the Evil descriptor is an inherently bad act, it follows that casting a spell with the Good descriptor is an inherently good act.
Protection from Evil has the Good descriptor and no material cost.
True but as always redemption is harder than falling.
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PFS has a ruling that lets you use evil spells without them changing your alignment...*adds entry to the growing list of PFS Bad Decisions*
It's necessary when you can have a different GM every game. There's no way to fairly handle each casting being an evil act.
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I agree with "make celestial healing less terrible". At the least the fact that it does nothing at CL 1 should be addressed.
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If you made someone evil drink a lot of potions of protection from evil would they turn good? Because the drinker is considered the caster.
After enough, but it would be the same moral dilemma with using a Crown of Opposite Alignment.
Mmmm, pure liquidy goodness.
The potions are a lot easier to come by and while you might be able to save against the effect, the drinker would still be the caster. This tactic may be nice for proving that someone is actually good too. A good person wouldn't worry about their alignment changing to good from drinking all of those potions. The cursed helm offers a save, and could have an undesired effect of changing the alignment of someone on the law and chaos effect.
At any rate, I could see why such an easily accessible and affordable method of changing someone's alignment would be banned in PFS.
Alignment makes sense as long as you don't let the rules get in your way.
there are actual rulez aboot alignment?
there are actual rulez aboot alignment?
One of the more recent books has some rules saying that once you cast so many [alignment descriptor] spells, your alignment automatically moves a step toward that descriptor.
there are actual rulez aboot alignment?One of the more recent books has some rules saying that once you cast so many [alignment descriptor] spells, your alignment automatically moves a step toward that descriptor.
Which were most likely only to be used in context of horror adventures where corruption runs amok and people change rapidly because of horror tropes.
there are actual rulez aboot alignment?One of the more recent books has some rules saying that once you cast so many [alignment descriptor] spells, your alignment automatically moves a step toward that descriptor.Which were most likely only to be used in context of horror adventures where corruption runs amok and people change rapidly because of horror tropes.
Possibly, but I haven't seen any evidence to back that up. A design post or FAQ to that effect would be helpful.
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PFS has a ruling that lets you use evil spells without them changing your alignment...*adds entry to the growing list of PFS Bad Decisions*
Its a necessary concession to a shared campaign where you can hop dms as you hop cities. At some point, yes, dipping into the well of evil or raising undead should make you ping as evil. But it's hard to establish a pattern of behavior in 4 hours, and tracking darkside points would be a pain in the tail.
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At some point, yes, dipping into the well of evil or raising undead should make you ping as evil.
If you're Neutral, those are necessary evils to keep your alignment from changing after so many adventures of saving people and helping the innocent.
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Possibly, but I haven't seen any evidence to back that up. A design post or FAQ to that effect would be helpful.there are actual rulez aboot alignment?One of the more recent books has some rules saying that once you cast so many [alignment descriptor] spells, your alignment automatically moves a step toward that descriptor.Which were most likely only to be used in context of horror adventures where corruption runs amok and people change rapidly because of horror tropes.
Nope, just like the sidebar that that flat out announced that yes, torture is evil, casting aligned spells are aligned acts.
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True but as always redemption is harder than falling.PFS has a ruling that lets you use evil spells without them changing your alignment...*adds entry to the growing list of PFS Bad Decisions*It prevents the inverse.
If casting a spell with the Evil descriptor is an inherently bad act, it follows that casting a spell with the Good descriptor is an inherently good act.
Protection from Evil has the Good descriptor and no material cost.
Not in pathfinder. I think it's 5 spells and you've gone from good to evil or from evil to good.
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Not in pathfinder. I think it's 5 spells and you've gone from good to evil or from evil to good.
Not in pathfinder using an optional rule from horror adventures, much like called shots, armor as damage reduction, words of power and other subsystems that people ignore.
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Not in pathfinder. I think it's 5 spells and you've gone from good to evil or from evil to good.True but as always redemption is harder than falling.PFS has a ruling that lets you use evil spells without them changing your alignment...*adds entry to the growing list of PFS Bad Decisions*It prevents the inverse.
If casting a spell with the Evil descriptor is an inherently bad act, it follows that casting a spell with the Good descriptor is an inherently good act.
Protection from Evil has the Good descriptor and no material cost.
There's more to redemption than just changing your alignment.
If you're Neutral, those are necessary evils to keep your alignment from changing after so many adventures of saving people and helping the innocent.
Not really.
Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons doesn't make you good. You can save the prince because he's in trouble, or for a big heaping pile of gold. Motivations matter for good. Not nearly as much for evil. Good and evil don't mirror each other as exact opposites: some of the rules are different.
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Not in pathfinder. I think it's 5 spells and you've gone from good to evil or from evil to good.True but as always redemption is harder than falling.PFS has a ruling that lets you use evil spells without them changing your alignment...*adds entry to the growing list of PFS Bad Decisions*It prevents the inverse.
If casting a spell with the Evil descriptor is an inherently bad act, it follows that casting a spell with the Good descriptor is an inherently good act.
Protection from Evil has the Good descriptor and no material cost.
So if I save 5 HD of people after having murdered the same amount do I get back to Neutral?
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Not in pathfinder using an optional rule from horror adventures, much like called shots, armor as damage reduction, words of power and other subsystems that people ignore.
Not in pathfinder. I think it's 5 spells and you've gone from good to evil or from evil to good.Has this rule made it online so people without the book can know what it says?
They're both up on d20, one under Torture Implements and the other under Magic.
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Not in pathfinder using an optional rule from horror adventures, much like called shots, armor as damage reduction, words of power and other subsystems that people ignore.
Not in pathfinder. I think it's 5 spells and you've gone from good to evil or from evil to good.Has this rule made it online so people without the book can know what it says?
Yes, check out the descriptor rules in the Magic section.
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So if I save 5 HD of people after having murdered the same amount do I get back to Neutral?Not in pathfinder. I think it's 5 spells and you've gone from good to evil or from evil to good.True but as always redemption is harder than falling.PFS has a ruling that lets you use evil spells without them changing your alignment...*adds entry to the growing list of PFS Bad Decisions*It prevents the inverse.
If casting a spell with the Evil descriptor is an inherently bad act, it follows that casting a spell with the Good descriptor is an inherently good act.
Protection from Evil has the Good descriptor and no material cost.
Doesn't quite level out that way.
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Not in pathfinder. I think it's 5 spells and you've gone from good to evil or from evil to good.True but as always redemption is harder than falling.PFS has a ruling that lets you use evil spells without them changing your alignment...*adds entry to the growing list of PFS Bad Decisions*It prevents the inverse.
If casting a spell with the Evil descriptor is an inherently bad act, it follows that casting a spell with the Good descriptor is an inherently good act.
Protection from Evil has the Good descriptor and no material cost.
I juggle a few pearls of power to cast Protection from Evil on the party before we enter an area where combat is likely. Yay, I'm 5 steps up towards good. I would have to cast 10 Infernal Healing spells to shift my original neutral alignment down to evil.
*As argued by a Lawful Neutral follower of Asmodeus, which subjective experience seems to include a great many PFS players and most of the rules forumites.
Are there no opportunistic Devils hanging out on the material plane of their own free will making deals for their blood? deals that they know will end with the users more devil than mortal? seems pretty in character to me
Sure, that's "in character" but that had nothing to do with my statement. It was a humble observation about how uncommon a devil might be who is "hanging out" as opposed to be summoned. Common enough to have blood samples to hand out to any mage who wants it? Maybe, maybe not, depending on the game setting.
*shrugs*
Since this has already had some homebrew posted...
We had one local campaign where we were all students at a just-destroyed magical academy. One of the houserules for the game was that 'Infernal Healing' was not _one_ spell, but rather, the spell 'Blood Calling', cast using Devil's Blood. The knack of casting BC with any particular blood was something we (each PC) had only mastered with a single type, however, so...
The Druid-leaning chick used Hallowed Sap, and her BC only healed in sunlight, was a bit nerfed on fleshies, and better on plants.
My character used Modron Oil for his BC, which didn't heal fleshies well at all, but also could do minor repairs.
And on the topic of alignment drift...
If the intent of the caster does not matter, and evil marker moves me evil, then I can balance (as observed above) by casting Protection from Evil, which has the good marker. Because that intent doesn't matter, either.
And if intent does matter, then I expect the good the party is otherwise doing will keep me above water, spiritually speaking. Of course, such hubris may be the Devils' plan, all along. Personally, I think their plan is simpler: Make the blood a commodity, and you ensure your kind will continue to be called, even if only as blood sources. Set themselves up as victim? Why not, when you want more criminals?
Thoughts for those who'd like to restrict the spell as written...
You have to get around the 'spell component pouch is assumed to have any component which has no stated cost'. So perhaps you state, '1 Silver Piece value in Devil's Blood'. Maybe you have your local authorities ban Devil's Blood, not for this one spell, but because larger quantities are A) derived from Callings, and B) used to draw circles for Nefarious Purposes.
Of course all that's just good roleplay. It's melancholy, but such involved RP is not automatically a good thing in PFS, where we have X many programmed encounters to fit into a Y-hour timeslot.
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Considering that anybody who fights a devil in hand to hand combat is likely to end up absolutely covered in devil blood, I don't see why infernal healing is that big a deal...