Air's Reach with Snake

[Davron]

I tried searching the forum, but these specific words seem too common for me to be able to search effectively, so I'm not sure if this question has already been answered.

Background:

Air's Reach says: "This effect applies after altering the range due to effects such as the extended range infusion."

Extended range says: "Your kinetic blast can strike any target within 120 feet."

Snake says: "Prerequisite(s) extended range" and "You can trace out any path no more than 120 feet long for your blast"

Question:

Does Air's Reach get applied after Snake since it is obviously a more advanced form of Extended Range? Does this mean that with Air's Reach that you get a path of 240 ft with Snake when using electricity or air?

[Chad Nedzlek]

I feel like the RAW is a little... murky. But if I were ruling this as a DM, I'd say yes. I can't think of very many instances where a target is going to be more than 120 feet away, less than 240, and the kineticist would know enough about their position to accurately target them. So allowing it doesn't really break anything.

So in my games, yeah, snake away.

[PossibleCabbage]

I feel like RAI, yes. Snake can only ordinarily give you a path at most 120 feet in length because 120 feet is the furthest your blast can travel ordinarily (with extended rage, which is a prereq here). Ordinarily it travels in a straight line, so you can hit things 120 feet away, but snake lets you take that 120 foot imaginary string and curve it around things. Since Air's Reach serves to make the length of your imaginary string longer, it should let you snake further.

[Helpful Harry]

Quote:

When using air blasts, air wild talents, or composite blasts that include air, double the blast's effective range. This effect applies after altering the range due to effects such as the extended range infusion. This doubles only the blast's effective range, not the area of effect for infusions like cloud and cyclone.

Quote:

You have fine control over your kinetic blast, allowing you to alter its path to avoid obstacles. You can trace out any path no more than 120 feet long for your blast, potentially allowing you to avoid cover (even total cover). You can choose a path that leads into squares you cannot see.

I'm not sure why this would be in question. It seems pretty clear cut to me.

[Davron]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I feel like RAI, yes. Snake can only ordinarily give you a path at most 120 feet in length because 120 feet is the furthest your blast can travel ordinarily (with extended rage, which is a prereq here). Ordinarily it travels in a straight line, so you can hit things 120 feet away, but snake lets you take that 120 foot imaginary string and curve it around things. Since Air's Reach serves to make the length of your imaginary string longer, it should let you snake further.

This is what I thought the intent was, but the "no more than" threw me for a loop. I know that in Hero Lab it only shows 60', which I knew was wrong. I asked my GM and he read through all the responses here and he agreed that it would make sense as it is just an upgraded extended range.

Thank you, Cabbage and Chad.

As for Harry's response, the issue is it says "path" and "no more than", which may have some extra implications in the rules that I'm not at all familiar with. Pathfinder rules are varied, complex and have really strange interdependencies that are non-obvious, at least to someone who isn't as familiar with the various rules and rulings as some people here. The last system I knew the entire ins and outs of was 2nd edition, and that was a far less complicated system.