Bardic Performance Question

[Kello]

So the Paths of the Righteous came out today and the Sphere Singer has some bardic performances. One in particular, the Butterfly, requires a performance that lasts 5 minutes, but afterwards you gain the effects of an over land flight spell with a cl equal to your hd. Since it's an hour per level effect she will benefit from a bardic performance effect for a long time. So the question is while benefitting from the effects of this performance can she benefit from another bardic performance or start another performance like inspire courage since she's technically not performing anymore? Will starting a new performance cause the effects from the Butterfly performance to end?

[Chess Pwn]

welcome to a question with over 200 faq clicks, and hundreds of posts. And no answer for over a year :D

[Diego Rossi]

AFAIK Chess Pwn comment is only a cynic prediction of the future as this seem to be a new feat.

Paths of the Righteous wrote:

Starsong (Su): A sphere singer is able to use Perform (sing) to create magical effects, as per the bardic performance bard class feature. She can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to twice her sphere singer level, and can also use rounds of bardic performance gained from bard levels to perform starsong performances, and vice versa. Starting a starsong performance is a move action, but it can be maintained each round asa free action. If the sphere singer has bardic performance, she can also start bardic performances as a move action instead of a standardaction. A starsong performance cannot be disrupted, but ends immediately if the sphere singer is killed, paralyzed, stunned, knocked unconscious, silenced, or otherwise prevented from taking a free action to maintain it each round.
A starsong performance counts as a bardic performance for the purpose of determining how many performances the sphere singer can have in effect at one time. A starsong performance has audible components
but not visual components. At 7th level, a sphere singer can start a starsong performance or a bardic performance as a swift action.
The save DC against a sphere singer’s performance is equal to 10 + the sphere singer’s level + her Charisma modifier.
The sphere singer’s performances grow stronger as her level increases.

.....

Butterfly: At 5th level, the sphere singer’s music lets her explore the skies. While she maintains this starsong, she gains the benefits of fly. Alternately, by spending 5 minutes performing and expending 10 rounds of starsong performance, she can gain the benefits of overland flight.
Both of these effects manifest at a caster level equal to the sphere singer’s total Hit Dice. While under either effect, the sphere singer grows large butterfly wings.

While performing it count as a bardic performance. You have no need to maintain the performance after you get overland fly.

I think that starting another bardic performance will not affect Butterfly.

If we look Lingering Performance, it explicitly say that " If you begin a new bardic performance during this time, the effects of the previous performance immediately cease.", so if this ability was meant to have the same limitation it would have used the same text.
Not a granted thing, the author could have forgot that, but it seem reasonable.

[Lintecarka]

The most reasonable way to interpret the interaction is that the effect of your performance is you casting a spell. Once you have done that you are no longer benefiting from the performance but the spell that resulted from it. Because of that you are free to start new performances (but the spell also wouldn't be relevant for stuff like Saving Finale of course).

[CBDunkerson]

Diego Rossi wrote:

AFAIK Chess Pwn comment is only a cynic prediction of the future as this seem to be a new feat.

There are many similar performances and masterpieces. He was referring to this thread.

That said, I have always understood the 'one performance at a time' rules to be meant for effects that only persist as long as the performance itself (or a few rounds longer with options like Lingering Performance). NOT to effects which persist after you have stopped performing. A suggestion implanted ten minutes ago by a core Bard does not suddenly end the moment he begins using Inspire Courage.

[Chess Pwn]

See, And I'm of the view that these things are the effects of the performance and thus would end when you start a new one. So yes, getting an hour per level buff from performance would only be good for out of combat, and need to be reapplied after a combat that you used inspire courage in.

These to me, grow in usefulness if you take an archetype that doesn't have good performances, because then since you can't inspire courage you have a decent option now with these.

[Purple Dragon Knight]

IMO, the longer casting time and big upfront 'bardic rounds' payment of 'Butterfly' should be enough to make the overland flight version not count as ongoing bardic performances. In fact, the 'performance' is happening at the beginning, out of combat, and the magical effect / duration that results of that performance comes at the culmination of said performance.

As for the regular fly version, it seems like a regular performance (i.e. fly for one round = 1 bardic performance round cost). The reference to caster level in this case is probably just for the purposes of detect magic and dispel magic, etc.

Edit: note that even though it's probably better, 90% of the time, to pre-activate the overland flight version, you may find yourself wanting a little bit of extra speed say, during a combat, at which point you can simply pay an extra bardic performance round and get the effect of the regular fly version... you're already under the 'Butterfly effect' (no pun intended), so I'd say that for those rounds where you're getting the fly boost you 'maintain as a free action' and just pay the extra cost... i.e. round 1, free action boost to fly, pay one round; round 2, move action start inspire courage, pay one round; round 3, free action maintain inspire courage, pay one round; etc. [while being under the effect of overland flight from round 1 through 3, as it was 'prepaid' hours ago with 10 bardic performance rounds...]

Edit2: in effect, and in the absence of a FAQ, I will from now on treat these 'long performances / upfront paid for effects' as spell-like abilities that you're basically powering with bardic performance rounds. An elegant way to think of it would be in terms similar to psychic magic universal monster ability and its associated psychic energy (PE) points.

psychic magic:

Psychic Magic (Sp) A creature with this ability can use the power of its mind to cast certain spells. Each spell cast using psychic magic consumes an amount of psychic energy. The creature has a maximum amount of psychic energy (PE) per day that refreshes after a night's rest. A creature with this ability can cast any of the spells listed in this entry as long as it has enough psychic energy remaining to pay the spell's PE cost. The DC for any of these spells is equal to 10 + the amount of psychic energy used to cast the spell + the creature's Charisma or Intelligence modifier (whichever is higher). Creatures that gain access to undercast spells via this ability can cast an undercast version of the spell by spending 1 PE fewer for each level lower that the spell is cast. A psychic magic spell with a PE cost of 0 can be cast any number of times, and can be cast even if the creature has 0 PE remaining. The psychic magic granted by this ability has the same thought and emotion components as psychic spells. The monster can apply metamagic feats to these spells by spending an amount of additional PE equal to the level increase of the metamagic feat and by increasing the casting time as normal for spontaneously casting a metamagic spell. Because this ability grants psychic spellcasting, it also allows the creature to use occult skill unlocks.