The Strangler Feat is redundant. It allows you to spend a swift action to apply your Sneak Attack damage whenever you maintain a grapple and deal damage.
Brawler Strangler allows you to automatically deal your Sneak Attack damage whenever you deal damage by maintaining a grapple, without using a swift action.
The archetype allows you to apply Sneak Attack twice in a round with Greater Grapple. You're limited to once a round with the feat. If you have the archetype, don't waste your feat.
I don't think you can use both at the same time (triggering Sneak Attack twice off of the same event).
|
Be warned, this combination could open a heated discussion.
I think the concensus reached is-
The Strangler archetype just gets bonus damage when grappling, and it being labelled as "sneak attack" in regards to creatures immune to sneak attack damage. This archetype doesn't grant the Sneak Attack ability and scaling die.
The Strangler feat requires the Sneak Attack ability to work, and just allows you to use your sneak attack die during a grapple.
IF Snakebite Striker archetype is stackable with the Strangler archetype, you could potentially deal 2d6 [1d6 Strangler (feat)/ +1d6 Strangle (Ex)] Sneak Attack during a grapple.
Be warned, this combination could open a heated discussion.
I think the concensus reached is-
The Strangler archetype just gets bonus damage when grappling, and it being labelled as "sneak attack" in regards to creatures immune to sneak attack damage. This archetype doesn't grant the Sneak Attack ability and scaling die.
The Strangler feat requires the Sneak Attack ability to work, and just allows you to use your sneak attack die during a grapple.IF Snakebite Striker archetype is stackable with the Strangler archetype, you could potentially deal 2d6 [1d6 Strangler (feat)/ +1d6 Strangle (Ex)] Sneak Attack during a grapple.
I don't see why Stranger archetype doesn't grant Sneak Attack. It calls it specifically that and explicitly mentions the ordinary Sneak Attack trigger (flanking). That it doesn't scale as regularly or at the same rate as most other classes that provide Sneak Attack is irrelevant.
I also don't see the problem (in theory - I haven't looked at what each replaces, etc.) with allowing Snakebite Striker's Sneak Attack to stack with Strangler's when grappling. You get +1d6 from each (plus scaling). But you only get both when you're grappling because otherwise the Strangler's Sneak Attack doesn't trigger.
To be clear:
Sneak Attack (Ex): A snakebite striker can make a sneak attack, as per the rogue class feature of the same name.
Strangle (Ex): At 1st level, a strangler deals 1d6 points of sneak attack damage (as per the rogue ability of the same name) [under conditions].
It says deal Sneak Attack as per the Rogue ability both times. So I don't see why they shouldn't each count as the Rogue ability. That's basically how the Weapon Training FAQ came out for Fighter archetypes (if it says it works like or satisfies the regular ability, then it does).
It calls the damage Sneak Attack, references the Rogue Ability Sneak Attack, and makes mention of the normal triggering function of the Rogue's Sneak Attack (flanking). It walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and even has a name tag with Duck on it tied around its neck. Barring an explicit statement otherwise, I think it's safest to assume it's supposed to be a duck.
|
|
Strangle only lets you deal sneak attack during a grapple; Strangler allows you to apply your sneak attack damage during a grapple.
Normally, you wouldn't be able to deal Sneak Attack while grappling- only against foes denied their dex or flanking.
Snakebite Strike explicitly get the Sneak Attack ability; Strangle just says "deals ... sneak attack damage". The "as per" wording is just a clarification on what the damage is quantified as, in regards to immunities and what not.
Read the thread i posted. There's a whole debate on the interaction.
That's just my interpretation of the interactions. I would run the idea past your GM when trying a build with this combination as it's a rulings conundrum.
As far as I know, Strangler is the only class that can deal sneak attack damage without having the Sneak Attack ability.
U. Rogue: Sneak Attack
Sandman (Bard): Sneak Attack
Snakebite Striker (Brawler): Sneak Attack
Vivisectionist (Alchemist): Sneak Attack
Cult Leader (Warpriest): Sneak Attack
...
To be clear:
Sneak Attack (Ex): A snakebite striker can make a sneak attack, as per the rogue class feature of the same name.Strangle (Ex): At 1st level, a strangler deals 1d6 points of sneak attack damage (as per the rogue ability of the same name) [under conditions].It says deal Sneak Attack as per the Rogue ability both times. So I don't see why they shouldn't each count as the Rogue ability. That's basically how the Weapon Training FAQ came out for Fighter archetypes (if it says it works like or satisfies the regular ability, then it does).
It calls the damage Sneak Attack, references the Rogue Ability Sneak Attack, and makes mention of the normal triggering function of the Rogue's Sneak Attack (flanking). It walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and even has a name tag with Duck on it tied around its neck. Barring an explicit statement otherwise, I think it's safest to assume it's supposed to be a duck.
fretgod99, the Rogue sneak attack ability does not stack with itself. If you look at classes/archetypes like the Assassin or the Vivisectionist you'll see the wording that allows their sneak attack damage to stack with other sources (the Rogue ability doesn't have that wording).
This is a point from that other thread, i'm not trying to start a war but this is a valid point of RAW (talk to your GM to see if they agree)
EDIT: D'oh, Snakebite Striker totally has that wording, should be fine
|
|
one of the ability mentions about grappling causing you to lose your dex bonus to AC, when grappling does no such thing.
Um, what? What book are you reading? Grappling causes both parties to have the "grappled" condition.
The second level Strangler ability says you don't loose your dex bonus while grappling/grappled.
since you lose out on Brawler's Flurry, unarmed strike becomes moot.
Why are you moping over Close Weapon Mastery? Unarmed strikes is only one such weapon in that weapon group. Give the Strangler a Dan Bong and a Cestus and he'll be good.
Strangle only lets you deal sneak attack during a grapple; Strangler allows you to apply your sneak attack damage during a grapple.
Normally, you wouldn't be able to deal Sneak Attack while grappling- only against foes denied their dex or flanking.
Snakebite Strike explicitly get the Sneak Attack ability; Strangle just says "deals ... sneak attack damage". The "as per" wording is just a clarification on what the damage is quantified as, in regards to immunities and what not.
Read the thread i posted. There's a whole debate on the interaction.
That's just my interpretation of the interactions. I would run the idea past your GM when trying a build with this combination as it's a rulings conundrum.As far as I know, Strangler is the only class that can deal sneak attack damage without having the Sneak Attack ability.
U. Rogue: Sneak Attack
Sandman (Bard): Sneak Attack
Snakebite Striker (Brawler): Sneak Attack
Vivisectionist (Alchemist): Sneak Attack
Cult Leader (Warpriest): Sneak Attack
...
This is why I referenced the Fighter Weapon Training FAQ. It's pretty much the exact same scenario. If it calls the ability something else, but says it functions generally as the base ability, it counts as the base ability.
It says it works like Sneak Attack, so it counts as sneak attack, even though it is called something else.
To be clear:
Sneak Attack (Ex): A snakebite striker can make a sneak attack, as per the rogue class feature of the same name.Strangle (Ex): At 1st level, a strangler deals 1d6 points of sneak attack damage (as per the rogue ability of the same name) [under conditions].It says deal Sneak Attack as per the Rogue ability both times. So I don't see why they shouldn't each count as the Rogue ability. That's basically how the Weapon Training FAQ came out for Fighter archetypes (if it says it works like or satisfies the regular ability, then it does).
It calls the damage Sneak Attack, references the Rogue Ability Sneak Attack, and makes mention of the normal triggering function of the Rogue's Sneak Attack (flanking). It walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and even has a name tag with Duck on it tied around its neck. Barring an explicit statement otherwise, I think it's safest to assume it's supposed to be a duck.
fretgod99, the Rogue sneak attack ability does not stack with itself. If you look at classes/archetypes like the Assassin or the Vivisectionist you'll see the wording that allows their sneak attack damage to stack with other sources (the Rogue ability doesn't have that wording).
This is a point from that other thread, i'm not trying to start a war but this is a valid point of RAW (talk to your GM to see if they agree)
EDIT: D'oh, Snakebite Striker totally has that wording, should be fine
And I've never bought into the idea that if you have 3d6 Sneak Attack from one source and 2d6 from another, you only get 3d6. Both trigger, both should apply. This isn't analogous to pools of Channel Energy. That type of limitation doesn't make any sense here.
Two non-stacking things can't trigger off the same event, simple as that. That's just the RAW though, I know lots of people house-rule this one in particular.
Since I don't see any reason they don't and shouldn't stack, I don't have an issue with them doing so.