Why is Perception a Skill?

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

Because rules of the game dating back to D+D 3.X say it is...

Paizo isn't going to change that outside of the options offered in Pathfinder UnChained!. If that's not enough for someone they can either change the rules as a GM, or ask their GM to do so.

It is simply not practical for Paizo to make a rules change this major with the game being out for almost a decade at this point.

[Lincoln Hills]

I don't know about that. Remember when Concentration was a skill?

[Mark Thomas 66]

In real life, perception is a trained skill. What do you think much of FBI training is? Everyone can see and hear, but most people have to be taught to notice things.

Perception is how you process the influx of sensory information. That's why obvious things have DC 10, anyone can perceive them with minimal difficulty, barring heavy distraction (take 10)

Now try to focus on the sound of a particular set of footsteps on a crowded street in the middle of the day....not that easy. You're still hearing it, but among all the other things you're hearing you can't perceive it unless you've trained yourself to filter out the irrelevant information.

Perception is most definitely a skill.

[KM WolfMaw]

Skull wrote:

This sounds suspiciously like 4th Edition DnD taint.

We need to quarantine this thread!

I like the skill, it makes a lot more sense since it was worked into a single skill. In 3.5 it was 3 different skills: listen, search and spot.

I never understood how someone could be good at spotting something, but search was a whole different skill. In pathfinder its all neatly rolled into 1 skill.

An alternative could have been boosting everyone's skill points by level.

[Milo v3]

Blackwaltzomega wrote:

How many of those people are seasoned adventurers in a fantasy game?

I guess you've never run a game set in the desert :P

[Mark Carlson 255]

Blackwaltzomega wrote:

Mark Carlson 255 wrote:

Blackwaltzomega,

What? Climb and swim not separate skills?
I guess if you are going a minimalist approach to skills you could combine them into one group but I know quite a few people who can climb well and did not learn to swim.
MDC

How many of those people are seasoned adventurers in a fantasy game?

I know quite a few people who plan fantasy games but I do not know of anyone who is an adventurer in a fantasy game as by definition it is a fantasy game.

But from history there are quite a few examples of people who are great at climbing or swimming and not the other and many other examples of such things as just because I am good at math does not mean I am good at physics or I am good at English but I am not a good author.

Having said that there are quite a few simplistic games out there that do that but they are just not for me.
MDC

[Starbuck_II]

Lincoln Hills wrote:

I don't know about that. Remember when Concentration was a skill?

I preferred it that way. Easier to max out as a skill.

[master_marshmallow]

I find that the mentality of always needing to roll perception is not really the best way to run the game. It's fun to have hidden things, but overall if there's something you want the players to find, let them find it and skip the perception roll. Personally, I run perception in a way that only really requires one person in the group to have it, and if said 'scout' character can alert the party to the appearance of enemies then it works the same for me for surprise rounds as noticing them.

If you turn the game into 'perception the game' then it would make sense for it to become a core mechanic like concentration did, as I understand a lot of published adventures work like this. A lot of this comes from the fact that search the skill was also incorporated into perception, and not just spot/listen.

[Mark Carlson 255]

Thinking some more about it I think it is game design also, by that I mean if you tied every skill you think a class/race/profession/adventure should have to level every PC/NPC is going to start to look the same. In some games that is fine but most long running games I know of look for differentiation in some way of PC's and NPC's.
There are also many different ideas on game design out there, for example I have seen a beta that just had the stats Phy, Ment, Soc and very few skills based off those and lots of skills defined by class (but you could not change class). Some of the testers I talked with loved it and some hated it.

The idea of skill points by stat can be found in Rolemaster (stats give development points) and a bit in GURPs (IIRC skill cost is tied to stat) and I have seen quite a few mods in my days that try and meld on systems skill rules into another systems combat, magic and class rules.

MDC

[Snowlilly]

Turelus wrote:

It kind of bugs me as well that so many things you just want you character to be able to do are locked behind skills. More annoying is that the way you gain more skill points is become smarter. To jump or acrobatics along with other skills you have to be academic and have a higher Int.

It's the system we have and what we use though I guess.

Rolemaster addressed this issue by using multiple stats to determine a character's development points/level.

Unfortunately, the system was too complicated for most players.

[Mark Carlson 255]

If you can get a good PC program RM is fairly easy, the problem's line in that it is different from quite a few other things and needs an update, which they are trying to do.
MDC

[Lady-J]

imo perception should be a class skill for everyone