I'm strongly considering adjusting my Geokineticist the Elemental Annihilator archetype since the "utility" options looked pretty universally lackluster until late-game.
(The archetype in question)
I have a few questions about the archetype in general.
1) yes, if you pick an elemental blast then you can use devastating infusion. You still get the extra feats and whatnot. But you need a physical blast.
2) power attack works with any weapon. it only get the -1/+3 for two-handing.
3) It makes you a normal martial. The damage potential is slightly higher for an EA than normal, but it's not as much as one might think.
2) power attack works with any weapon. it only get the -1/+3 for two-handing.
I was under the impression that a light weapon couldn't benefit from two-handing?
EA sounds... kinda underwhelming. Like the rest of the class I suppose. Is there anything especially interesting that can be done with it? Aside from a full attack with big damage?
power attack is -1/+2 for all light and one-handed weapon attacks.
EA is just a martial class but with a "lighsaber" weapon instead of a normal weapon.
The archetype lets you be a martial with Con to damage, or any of the mental stats if you combine it with another archetype (unless I missed a conflict). It's also got better ranged options than most martial get without extra feats.
2) power attack works with any weapon. it only get the -1/+3 for two-handing.
I was under the impression that a light weapon couldn't benefit from two-handing?
EA sounds... kinda underwhelming. Like the rest of the class I suppose. Is there anything especially interesting that can be done with it? Aside from a full attack with big damage?
Kinetic Blade (and by extension Devastating Infusion) can be used for either a light or one-handed weapon, and it explicitly mentions being able to use the Devastating Infusion weapon two-handed. So you'd still be able to benefit from Power Attack like you'd wanted.
So, I'd be able to use Weapon Finesse and Power Attack? That's something I suppose.
yup, you just don't get the bonus for two-handing a weapon if it's a light weapon.
One can use Weapon Finesse and Power Attack. However if one wants to benefit from -1 attack/+3 damage benefit from two-handed power attack, the kinetic blade/devastating infusion can't be a light weapon, and thus won't be able to use Weapon Finesse while having increased Power Attack damage. Also if wanting to use the two-handed 1.5 x Constitution modifier option of devastating infusion, the weapon has to be one-handed and again not finessable.
but you can get -1/+3 pa with a 2h finessable weapon just look at the elven curve blade.
Yes, and paladin's can smite evil. So what? We're talking about the Elemental Annihilator Kineticist and their options. Which makes +3 power attack and finesse-able uncombindable.
but you can get -1/+3 pa with a 2h finessable weapon just look at the elven curve blade.
That's a specific weapon with a specific ruling that the specific non-light weapon is finessable.
You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls with an elven curve blade that is sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon.
Kinetic blade (and devastating infusion) doesn't have such a text, so the normal Weapon Finesse rules applies:
You are trained in using your agility in melee combat, as opposed to brute strength.
Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.
Special: Natural weapons are considered light weapons.
Devastating Infusion mentions it can only be used with a physical blast. So, a pyrokineticist (who's utility talents are some of the worst) is locked off from the "mo damage" archetype? Am I missing something? Are other elements unable to use this?
It isn't just the 'mo damage' archetype.
It is 'just use the old, regular rules and styles' archetypes. So it does archery, 2 handing, and TWF stuff, and does them normally. And those do more damage, because the system and numbers is based on certain assumptions and power progresssion (ie: you get more stronger with more iteratives, because more attacks allow you to get bonuses more times). It then later allows you to pick up normal kineticist infusions later to have some tricks when linear warrior/quadratic wizard hits.
So this archetype avoid all that energy and touch AC junk. It just wants the elements that does normal slashing/piercing/bludgeoning damage in a style similar to weapons. It wants to have what is basically the same bread and butter as everyone else, because that is what works when damage is your main goal.
And it is fine, because pyro would be TERRIBLE for this anyway. Think about it: this archetype shifts from the '1 big hit' style of the regular class for the more traditional 'many small hits' style. ...which means that Fire resist 5 would cripple you, forever. The one big hit style can eventually power through. Resist 5 is basically nothing against one hit that does 100 damage. But cripples a build that does 10 hits of 10 damage, since each of those face resist 5. And what about resist 30 (which any level 10 druid can do with a spell)?
And it is fine, because pyro would be TERRIBLE for this anyway. Think about it: this archetype shifts from the '1 big hit' style of the regular class for the more traditional 'many small hits' style. ...which means that Fire resist 5 would cripple you, forever. The one big hit style can eventually power through. Resist 5 is basically nothing against one hit that does 100 damage. But cripples a build that does 10 hits of 10 damage, since each of those face resist 5. And what about resist 30 (which any level 10 druid can do with a spell)?
It also locks Pyro out of the really nice Utility Talents they get like Fire's Fury (which helps make up some of the lesser damage from being an energy blast), Searing Flame (which helps deal with Fire Resistance), and Smoke Storm (as well as Firesight, which would let you see through your Smoke Storm).
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I played an Elemental Annihilator from 1st to 8th level. From 1st to 3rd level or so, it's pretty solid. I wasn't doing much more than just straight hitting stuff with my blast, but it does that well.
From 4th level on it started to feel lackluster. Opportunities to full attack aren't all that common, I ended up falling back to my vanilla ranged blast a lot, and the lack of utility powers really started to sting.
By 8th level I found my damage was less than that of of a regular kineticist (unless I could get a full attack in and hit with more than one attack), and I couldn't do any of the crazy utility stuff they were doing. I ended up training out of the archetype.
Your millage my vary, of course.
Did you max your overflow to get your accuracy bonuses (it doesn't add damage unfortunately) and was Dex your highest stat? if either of these are a no, then it makes sense that you'd have the results you did.
How could you not full attack often? You have an 120ft blast to full attack with. That's more than a longbow's first range increment. So if enemies were often outside that range and using long range options then your situation is atypical but would explain your results.
Also, were you using rapid shot? Deadly aim? Had you taken the ranged feat for attacking into melee? certain combinations of these would explain your low accuracy as well.
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Did you max your overflow to get your accuracy bonuses (it doesn't add damage unfortunately) and was Dex your highest stat? if either of these are a no, then it makes sense that you'd have the results you did.
How could you not full attack often? You have an 120ft blast to full attack with. That's more than a longbow's first range increment. So if enemies were often outside that range and using long range options then your situation is atypical but would explain your results.
Also, were you using rapid shot? Deadly aim? Had you taken the ranged feat for attacking into melee? certain combinations of these would explain your low accuracy as well.
Yes, and yes. But I was built for melee, so full attacking from ranged was rarely optimal.
I can see how an 'archer' style EA might be very effective.
It also locks Pyro out of the really nice Utility Talents they get like Fire's Fury (which helps make up some of the lesser damage from being an energy blast), Searing Flame (which helps deal with Fire Resistance), and Smoke Storm (as well as Firesight, which would let you see through your Smoke Storm).
And it is fine, because pyro would be TERRIBLE for this anyway. Think about it: this archetype shifts from the '1 big hit' style of the regular class for the more traditional 'many small hits' style. ...which means that Fire resist 5 would cripple you, forever. The one big hit style can eventually power through. Resist 5 is basically nothing against one hit that does 100 damage. But cripples a build that does 10 hits of 10 damage, since each of those face resist 5. And what about resist 30 (which any level 10 druid can do with a spell)?
Yeah, in comparison, an earth user would likely be fine. It delays the entangling infusion a bit, until level 7, but ultimately, most of earth's best combos are high level. There is some earthglide and tremor sense stuff, but you can mostly do without those (since most people do; I am sure there are party combos that lack any access to either of those). So the earth user has less reason NOT to go with this archetype for the extra damage options.
Really, from my perspective, their biggest loss is ride the blast, which has somewhat odd but useful mobility options.
Really, the only reason to pick Fire as an Elemental Annihilator is if you want to use the physical Fire composite blasts at some point.
To be honest, I don't see Elemental Annihilator doing much more damage than any other class with the same build, mainly because you can't enchant your kinetic blade. Granted, you still get the static attack/damage/size bonuses from elemental overflow and the bonus feats, so that helps to even things out.
Well, it does get some decent damage. Mostly due to the high accuracy.
The archetype gets fake full BAB (+20), plus a 'weapon training' (+4), elemental overflow's stat boosters (+3 or +2), and overflow's attack boost (up to +7). The special blast only removes bonus damage from overflow. So a potential +34 on attacks is rather nice on something with archery and TWF options.
The stat boosts from overflow, the 'weapon training', and ability to grab weapon expertise... about cover the loss of enhancement bonuses to damage. Add in intense SAD ability to focus on only a few stats, and I think you aren't missing out to much in raw damage.