MM: Ahmotep vs. Estra

[db104]

Hi,

I am hoping to start a MM campaign soon with friends and am trying to decide which of these characters I'd like to play. They both seem fairly well rounded, based on Ahmotep's base dice and ability to +/-2 her dice rolls and her staff recharge for combat; and Honaire for Estra. Ahmotep seems a little more balanced, including b/c of her weapon proficiency, but Estra's prestige classes seem to be a little bit cooler than Ahmotep's.

I know it depends on who else others are playing, which I won't know for a bit, and I know we won't have experience with the prestige classes for awhile, but still any feedback from the community based on first impressions would be much appreciated!

[Calthaer]

You actually can get an idea for what everyone else is playing...
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tz4y?Whats-your-party-for-Mummys-Mask

[db104]

Calthaer wrote:

You actually can get an idea for what everyone else is playing...

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tz4y?Whats-your-party-for-Mummys-Mask

Sry - I meant I won't know who my friends are going to play so won't have an idea if either is best for the party I'll be in. That's a very helpful thread though, thanks!

[Matsu Kurisu]

db104 wrote:

Hi,

I am hoping to start a MM campaign soon with friends and am trying to decide which of these characters I'd like to play. They both seem fairly well rounded, based on Ahmotep's base dice and ability to +/-2 her dice rolls and her staff recharge for combat; and Honaire for Estra. Ahmotep seems a little more balanced, including b/c of her weapon proficiency, but Estra's prestige classes seem to be a little bit cooler than Ahmotep's.

I know it depends on who else others are playing, which I won't know for a bit, and I know we won't have experience with the prestige classes for awhile, but still any feedback from the community based on first impressions would be much appreciated!

I played Ahmotep for two scenarios on Friday using recommended cardlist. I really struggled with her. Yes her +/- 2 power is awesome.... execpt the one time when I failed a check it was by more than two.

The other two powers were underwhelming. Only one of the three staffs I had discarded spells. The recharge a staff, only works if you have a staff (see 3 staves above)
Originally I had planned to play her in our mm campaign, however I will be playing something different

[Keith Richmond]

Ahmotep is a generalist, so she may feel a little weak initially (though she'll succeed at a broader array of things than many), but after just a little time she really comes into her own. I'd say she's one of my favorite characters.

Estra is very solid, with high on-demand output and no real weaknesses.

Neither explores a ton, though they're both solid. I think you're safe with either character.

[Iceman]

I decided to pick between Ahmotep and Simoun, and while I am having lots of fun with the latter, I've seen a number of non-basic Staves pop up (both in the weapon and the item category, interestingly) that I'm certain she'll be fun next time thru.

[Matsu Kurisu]

Keith Richmond wrote:

Ahmotep is a generalist, so she may feel a little weak initially (though she'll succeed at a broader array of things than many), but after just a little time she really comes into her own. I'd say she's one of my favorite characters.

Estra is very solid, with high on-demand output and no real weaknesses.

Neither explores a ton, though they're both solid. I think you're safe with either character.

On further reflection, I can see she is REALLY dependent on the deck and the sample build does not work well e.g. lots of attack spells rather than utility, only one staff with discard a spell. Will review the basic cards and see if I can build a decklist I like for her

[James McKendrew]

I've played both, and I've never used Ahmotep's staff powers. I keep one in the deck so I can have a legal starting hand, and that's about it. She functions well enough without them, especially if you can get her Acid Spray to use for Disable checks.

I found Estra to be an EXCELLENT Divine caster. The trick is, be SURE Honaire is in your hand before you cure yourself. The last thing you wanns do is shuffle him in.

[Matsu Kurisu]

James McKendrew wrote:

I've played both, and I've never used Ahmotep's staff powers. I keep one in the deck so I can have a legal starting hand, and that's about it. She functions well enough without them, especially if you can get her Acid Spray to use for Disable checks.

Can you share what starting Weapons, Spells & Items you went for? Thanks

[isaic16]

I found Ahmotep to be good enough early, and becomes an all-star once she can share the +/-2 with others at her location. I've loved all 3 characters I've played (Drelm, Ahmotep, Alahazra), but she might be my favorite.

The staves are good because I can focus her in Arcane, and still pack almost entirely support spells, since if the going gets tough, I just use the staff to turn them into attack spells. There are even some staves which reveal to do the spell cast, which means you can use it repeatedly.

[db104]

Thanks everyone.

FWIW, I've been trying a couple solo scenarios using just the two and am finding it neither too easy nor too hard, so it's been fun. Neither one has outshined the other just yet. I observed that Ahmotep has not been so great with barriers, although I started out with the recommended decklist, so that may have contributed (though note the explorer's staff helps with disable). On the other hand, she has been able to succeed in combats fairly consistently in different ways - she always gets a +2 whether it's melee or arcane and either a base d8 or d10 plus whatever bonuses from weapon or spell. I also like that you don't feel bad about varying your spell collection between attack spells and support spells given her staff ability and her base melee 1d8+2 (whereas with Estra I'm mindful that every support spell takes up an attack slot, often the way with divine casters). The hardest thing about her for me so far is that she gets closer to death, given no cure ability - I'm looking forward to getting a staff of minor healing which for her will both give her a little self-help plus the staff ability in a pinch.

Estra is also great so far with combat when she has attack spells. On a related note, so far I haven't ended up using her main examine ability very often - because she has no weapon slot (wish she did, for a staff or cane or something), at this stage with so few cards I often am choosing between attacking and using one of her powers (examining and damage reduction). I guess I need to be more careful about when I use Honaire, as you only really get him once a turn. The undead 1d8 hasn't come up much yet for me.

[db104]

BTW, in case anyone is into minis for characters like I am, I went with Lyrie Akenja for Ahmotep (http://www.pathfinderminis.com/gallery3.htm) and Baba Yaga for Estra (http://www.pathfinderminis.com/gallery14.htm). I also picked Duppy for Honaire (http://pathfinderminis.com/gallery7.htm). Curious to hear if anyone has other suggestions!

:-)

[Eliandra Giltessan]

We've been using Baba Yaga for Mother Myrtle in OP. Truly, she has many roles.

[Cintra Bristol]

I'm playing both Estra and Ahmotep. (4 character game - my husband plays Mavaro and Zadim.)

I'm enjoying Ahmotep more - she is more consistently able to succeed. I never use the "recharge a spell" staff power; I carry two weapon staves plus an item staff to use for the recharge for a +1d8. I also never carry attack spells, just utility spells.

Estra is a bit harder. She is more prone to get into situations she can't handle, particularly when multiple combats are required. I carry three attack spells and may need to increase that, but I've been reluctant to give up any of the utility spells I've got.

[db104]

Cintra Bristol wrote:

I'm playing both Estra and Ahmotep. (4 character game - my husband plays Mavaro and Zadim.)

I'm enjoying Ahmotep more - she is more consistently able to succeed. I never use the "recharge a spell" staff power; I carry two weapon staves plus an item staff to use for the recharge for a +1d8. I also never carry attack spells, just utility spells.

Estra is a bit harder. She is more prone to get into situations she can't handle, particularly when multiple combats are required. I carry three attack spells and may need to increase that, but I've been reluctant to give up any of the utility spells I've got.

I'll agree with this. I am through the base set using only those two and seem to be having a much harder time with Estra succeeding at non-Wisdom based checks. I am really enjoying Ahmotep though, and have found some fun card combos for her.

[Keith Richmond]

Just since I haven't seen it mentioned, it's perhaps worth note that one of the strongest options Estra has is _not to recharge her spells_. Because she can take them back from her discard pile with relative ease, careful control of what she has available there makes it easier to be more confident in your explorations.

I think that strong scouting is very helpful for Estra, though, yes.

[Talonius]

I really like Estra but she can get tooled fast without spells in hand... Has anyone asked/considered whether the add 1d10 to a strength based combat check would also trigger her add 1d8 against undead skill?

I haven't been playing it that way because the skill specifically states that the card has the undead trait... my idea would probably only apply if it said "invokes" the undead trait.

[Malcolm_Reynolds]

It depends on how her undead power is worded (quoting powers when asking questions makes it easier for people to answer).

I've found it helpful to choose not to recharge an attack spell and then put Honaire back on her deck to pick it back up. That way I've always got at attack spell handy.

[Doppelschwert]

Talonius wrote:

I really like Estra but she can get tooled fast without spells in hand... Has anyone asked/considered whether the add 1d10 to a strength based combat check would also trigger her add 1d8 against undead skill?

I haven't been playing it that way because the skill specifically states that the card has the undead trait... my idea would probably only apply if it said "invokes" the undead trait.

Estra wrote:

Add 1d8 to your check against a card that has the Undead trait.

This means you can add 1d8 to your check if the card you encounter has the Undead trait.

Example wrote:

Add 1d8 to your check with the Undead trait.

This means you can add 1d8 to your check if you played a card or used a power that gave the check the Undead trait.

Example wrote:

Add 1d8 to your check that invokes the Undead trait.

This means you can add 1d8 if either the card you encounter has the Undead trait or if you played a card or used a power that gave the check the Undead trait.

In short, Estra is good at dealing with Undead she encounters, but doesn't get stronger when she (somehow) uses something Undead herself. Thats the reason why the power is only against Undead, in contrast to being invoked as soon as there are any Undead involved.

[Malcolm_Reynolds]

If the bonus is against cards that have the Undead trait, then it does count towards acquiring or recharging boons (like the spells that have the Undead trait).