What are the things that fall under the category of "Ability Checks" and "Skill Checks"?

[KunoichiSong]

So I was looking at the Stone of Good Luck (Luckstone) and I noticed how it said "Ability Checks" AND "Skill Checks".

I thought Skill Checks were included in "Ability Checks", so I wondered why there was a distinction there. Furthermore, I know Initiative is an Ability Check, and wondered what else was considered an Ability Check other than skills and initiative, if there are any.

To summarize:

Can someone tell me what's the difference between Ability Checks and Skill Checks?
AND
Can someone help me with a list of things that a Luckstone would add to, other than skill checks?

[Lady-J]

skill checks are things that involve skills such as stealth or climb ability checks are things like strangth checks or wisdom checks

[KunoichiSong]

Lady-J wrote:

skill checks are things that involve skills such as stealth or climb ability checks are things like strangth checks or wisdom checks

So... ability checks include stuff like... skills checks.

[burkoJames]

if you look here: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/gettingStarted.html at the ability score description you find that ability checks are defined as checks that use your ability score modifier and nothing else (aside from situational modifiers). any [attribute] check such as strength check, con check, etc. is an ability check. initiative is a den check, with its own set of situational modifiers. there is no comprehensive list. ability checks are catch-all checks for when no defined skill applies, but you are clearly employing an ability score. like lifting heavy objects is a strength check. there are some clearly defined uses, like bleeding out is a con check, as are feats of endurance like holding your breath and running without getting fatigued. any time you call for a [ability] check, the luckstone applies.

[Lady-J]

KunoichiSong wrote:

Lady-J wrote:

skill checks are things that involve skills such as stealth or climb ability checks are things like strangth checks or wisdom checks

So... ability checks include stuff like... skills checks.

no they are their own checks

list of skill checks strength, dexterity, constitution, intelligence, wisdom, charisma. these checks apply to things that would not fall under skill checks like moving a big rock would neither be swim nor climb there for it is a strength check.

[Create Mr. Pitt]

So is initiative a form of ability check?

[Lady-J]

Create Mr. Pitt wrote:

So is initiative a form of ability check?

no because you can get boosts to initiative other than dexterity.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

Actually, it is.

Combat:Initiative wrote:

At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative check. An initiative check is a Dexterity check.

Luckstones help with initiative checks.

[Jurassic Pratt]

As has already been brought up, initiative is a great example of an ability check.

Another good example is when you have to move something heavy or a door is stuck. In that case you'd be rolling a straight strength check since there's no skill for that.

[Lady-J]

Jurassic Pratt wrote:

As has already been brought up, initiative is a great example of an ability check.

no its not because its not an ability check

[Diego Rossi]

Lady-J wrote:

Create Mr. Pitt wrote:

So is initiative a form of ability check?

no because you can get boosts to initiative other than dexterity.

PRD wrote:

Initiative

At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative check. An initiative check is a Dexterity check. Each character applies his or her Dexterity modifier to the roll, as well as other modifiers from feats, spells, and other effects. Characters act in order, counting down from the highest result to the lowest. In every round that follows, the characters act in the same order (unless a character takes an action that results in his or her initiative changing; see Special Initiative Actions).

It is a ability check.

BTW, other ability check can be modified by other things beside you ability modifier.
As an example Strength Surge add 1/2 of your cleric level to strength check, when used.

Please show us the rule that say that an ability check can't be modified by "feats, spells, and other effects".

Lady-J wrote:

Jurassic Pratt wrote:

As has already been brought up, initiative is a great example of an ability check.

no its not because its not an ability check

Please, show us where you find a definition of the ability check that say that a dexterity check used to determine your initiative isn't an ability check.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

A skill check is a d20 roll for which you need to know how many ranks you have in some skill.

An ability check... is a d20 roll to which you add some ability's modifier and which is not a skill check, attack roll, or saving throw. I can't find a better definition than that. There isn't even a comprehensive list of the kinds of checks, so my "is not" list may be incomplete. :-(

[Curghann]

A Strength check to break a door/object is another example of an ability check.

[Chess Pwn]

now some things are ability based checks, like saving throws and attack rolls. So STR check to break a door, Sunder to break a door. Both are str based, first is a str check, second is an attack check.

[Create Mr. Pitt]

Thanks. I'd has always been of the opinion that an initiative check is a core concept ability check (dex, unless feat) but I have seen disagreement on the topic. But the text seem pretty clear.

Skill checks have ability modifier bonuses, but are not themselves an ability check. I am not sure there is any other type of check, like initiative, that is an ability check disguised under other terminology, it'd be interesting to see what else exists.

[Java Man]

Concentration checks are one I have seen debated. Looks lime a level based check modified by attribute to me, but it can be argued to be an attribute check modified by level.

[Create Mr. Pitt]

Java Man wrote:

Concentration checks are one I have seen debated. Looks lime a level based check modified by attribute to me, but it can be argued to be an attribute check modified by level.

This is one I was considering. It feels like it could be either, but I think level-based check is more plausible, especially since any type of casting modifier could be applied as the bonus to the check.

[Ravingdork]

An ability check is any check where the base number (after the 1d20, but before additional bonuses) is essentially just your ability score modifier.

Therefore, initiative IS an ability check, because is is simply 1d20 + DexMod + MiscBonuses.

However, the reverse is NOT true. For example, a Concentration check is not considered an ability check because it is 1d20 + CasterLevel + AbilityMod. If you were a sorcerer using Charisma, however, it would still be considered a Charisma-based check for the purposes of things like wearing a circlet of persuasion, but that's still not the same thing as a Charsima ability check (or simply "Charisma check").

I hope that makes sense.

[Java Man]

This is how I have understood it, but have heard contrary stances.