High level characters


Tales


Which pathfinder tales would contain the highest character levels ?

Contributor

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As protagonists or villains?

If villains, and we're only talking about class levels (not high-powered monsters), then my guess would be Lord of Runes. I'd have to hear a real convincing argument for how anybody outpaces that particular Big Bad strictly on the basis of class levels.

If we're talking about on the protagonist side then I genuinely don't know. I have a pretty good sense of where some of the main characters in the various novels fall, but others I have no idea about, and still others (cough-Radovan-cough) have some complicating factors going on.

I'd be interested in hearing other people's theories, but I would not feel confident about advancing my own. :)

Creative Director, Starfinder Team

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Liane Merciel wrote:

As protagonists or villains?

If villains, and we're only talking about class levels (not high-powered monsters), then my guess would be Lord of Runes. I'd have to hear a real convincing argument for how anybody outpaces that particular Big Bad strictly on the basis of class levels.

If we're talking about on the protagonist side then I genuinely don't know. I have a pretty good sense of where some of the main characters in the various novels fall, but others I have no idea about, and still others (cough-Radovan-cough) have some complicating factors going on.

I'd be interested in hearing other people's theories, but I would not feel confident about advancing my own. :)

I think the highest-level heroes probably show up in Lord of Runes and Hellknight.

Scarab Sages

Lord of Runes has the highest level characters (on the both the antagonist and protagonist side). Certainly they are higher than Radovan and the Count (who are no slouches).

I would have argued Salim from Death's Heretic and Redemption Engine is pretty high up there as well, but if James says he isn't, then I guess he isn't. At the least Salim has some Mythic stuff going on.

After that, the crew in Worldwound Gambit are fairly high up, and then Isiem from Merciel's novels is no low level player.

On the antagonist side, the highest CR threat in any of the novels is in Starspawn. Even Lord of Runes can't compare with that.


Master of Devils also has a very high level feel, even though it comes before Lord of Runes in Dave Gross' Radovan & Count Jeggare Tales. It is over the top Wuxia fun and Radovan somehow acquires high level monk powers like Quivering Palm, even though he clearly started as a thug rogue. (Still bugs my inner rules lawyer that that cannot be built , even with retraining). He also meets the monkey king iirc.

Contributor

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There's always a lure to up the ante with every successive book. There are pluses and minuses in doing so, however.

On the upside...the magic and powers are way cool to play with in a story narrative. Finding new ways to apply spells (sometimes not as the designers intended... Muaa haa haa) is a blast.

On the downside, if your characters are such badasses, who in Golarion can oppose them. You run into the superman scenario really quickly.

Oh, and I hope you all enjoy the upcoming "Pirate's Curse"... I up the ante as far as villains go by quite a lot...

Muaa haa haa!


Belabras wrote:

Lord of Runes has the highest level characters (on the both the antagonist and protagonist side). Certainly they are higher than Radovan and the Count (who are no slouches).

I would have argued Salim from Death's Heretic and Redemption Engine is pretty high up there as well, but if James says he isn't, then I guess he isn't. At the least Salim has some Mythic stuff going on.

Salim isn't mythic by any means. He does have a couple of nice items, his most potent probably being an Amulet of the Planes, and I'd warrant he put in some ranks on a unique skill to give him more (but not perfect) control of the item since he makes 3 out of 4 succesful trips with it.) He also doesn't prepare spells since he refuses generally to use magic.

So what he does have are some benefits that can not be defined in mechanics.

1. He can call on any spell on his class list.. but will only do so in utter desperation.

2. He has the direct monitoring of a unique psychopomp and possibly Pharasma herself, or she simply put a diety level curse on him that prevents him from ageing or dying. This does not prevent him from being permanently taken out of the action by things described in the book or from anyone who's watched Torchwood.

3. He has a century's worth of connections that he can call on in a limited way, and can occasionally get items by putting them on his handler's tab.

So he's sort of an inquisitor, but only slightly at best.


Chris A Jackson wrote:

There's always a lure to up the ante with every successive book. There are pluses and minuses in doing so, however.

On the upside...the magic and powers are way cool to play with in a story narrative. Finding new ways to apply spells (sometimes not as the designers intended... Muaa haa haa) is a blast.

On the downside, if your characters are such badasses, who in Golarion can oppose them. You run into the superman scenario really quickly.

Oh, and I hope you all enjoy the upcoming "Pirate's Curse"... I up the ante as far as villains go by quite a lot...

Muaa haa haa!

Looking forward to the next adventure

Scarab Sages

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Belabras wrote:

Lord of Runes has the highest level characters (on the both the antagonist and protagonist side). Certainly they are higher than Radovan and the Count (who are no slouches).

I would have argued Salim from Death's Heretic and Redemption Engine is pretty high up there as well, but if James says he isn't, then I guess he isn't. At the least Salim has some Mythic stuff going on.

Salim isn't mythic by any means. He does have a couple of nice items, his most potent probably being an Amulet of the Planes, and I'd warrant he put in some ranks on a unique skill to give him more (but not perfect) control of the item since he makes 3 out of 4 succesful trips with it.) He also doesn't prepare spells since he refuses generally to use magic.

So what he does have are some benefits that can not be defined in mechanics.

1. He can call on any spell on his class list.. but will only do so in utter desperation.

2. He has the direct monitoring of a unique psychopomp and possibly Pharasma herself, or she simply put a diety level curse on him that prevents him from ageing or dying. This does not prevent him from being permanently taken out of the action by things described in the book or from anyone who's watched Torchwood.

3. He has a century's worth of connections that he can call on in a limited way, and can occasionally get items by putting them on his handler's tab.

So he's sort of an inquisitor, but only slightly at best.

It was more that he is a several hundred year old human who can't die that I was referring to.


Belabras wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Belabras wrote:

Lord of Runes has the highest level characters (on the both the antagonist and protagonist side). Certainly they are higher than Radovan and the Count (who are no slouches).

I would have argued Salim from Death's Heretic and Redemption Engine is pretty high up there as well, but if James says he isn't, then I guess he isn't. At the least Salim has some Mythic stuff going on.

Salim isn't mythic by any means. He does have a couple of nice items, his most potent probably being an Amulet of the Planes, and I'd warrant he put in some ranks on a unique skill to give him more (but not perfect) control of the item since he makes 3 out of 4 succesful trips with it.) He also doesn't prepare spells since he refuses generally to use magic.

So what he does have are some benefits that can not be defined in mechanics.

1. He can call on any spell on his class list.. but will only do so in utter desperation.

2. He has the direct monitoring of a unique psychopomp and possibly Pharasma herself, or she simply put a diety level curse on him that prevents him from ageing or dying. This does not prevent him from being permanently taken out of the action by things described in the book or from anyone who's watched Torchwood.

3. He has a century's worth of connections that he can call on in a limited way, and can occasionally get items by putting them on his handler's tab.

So he's sort of an inquisitor, but only slightly at best.

It was more that he is a several hundred year old human who can't die that I was referring to.

That by itself, doesn't make him mythic or high level... just the plaything and/or tool of a god. Class level wise he's at most 11th or so, arguably less, as he does not demonstrate any particurlarly high level abilities. I'd peg him at 6-8th plus extras as mentioned above.

Scarab Sages

I think you can argue either way. To me that feels like a Granted (literally a tool of a god) background with enough mythic power to be immortal.


Belabras wrote:
I think you can argue either way. To me that feels like a Granted (literally a tool of a god) background with enough mythic power to be immortal.

Immortality does not require mythic, especially if it's not a quality of the character itself, but an external imposition. especially since the character does not display any other qualities that would be described as mythic.

Case in point, his female companion of the novel, who's definitely an ordinary mortal does a very good job of keeping up with him, save for the fact that she doesn't have any of his fancy adventuring equipment to deal with things such as DR and incoporeal creatures.

Scarab Sages

Flouting gods, visiting heaven, hell, the outer reaches of axis, the First World, facing down planar powers, and dealing with ancient creatures that enslave a race of vampires ALL feels mythic to me. And there is nothing wrong with that. The mythic system is there so you can codify characters and stories that have even larger than life stories than the average pathfinder character.

Could it just be special GM dispensation? Yes, but that is what the mythic system IS. Only Sutter knows if Salim is intended to be a mythic character, but I don't see anything wrong with using that system to describe him.

Liberty's Edge

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Personally, I'd view Salim as a medium-high level character with, like, 1 Mythic Tier. That's enough for Longevity, which is as close as the system gets to his particular immortality, and leaves him not entirely outclassing non-mythic characters.

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
1. He can call on any spell on his class list.. but will only do so in utter desperation.

Huh? No he can't. We only see him use a handful of spells, and in at least one notable instance he proves rather definitively that he doesn't have Create Water.

There's no evidence of the first half of that statement at all. The fact that he only casts when desperate is indisputably true, but any spell? No evidence of that.

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